<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>Michael, thank you for the story and the link.<br></div>yes, I can imagine the power of doing OST twice a year for many years!<br></div>Awesome...<br><br></div>Harrison, thank you for your directness. I particularly appreciated reading this: "<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">I
have received calls from all sorts of people, senior executives to the
shop floor, telling me that they now knew that life where they were was
impossible and they had to leave, and could I help."<br><br></span></div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Seems like this is a byproduct of any process that "opens space" in an effective way...<br></span></span></div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">and no, I don't think it's depressing at all.<br><br></span></span></div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Rosa<br></span></span><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"></span><br></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><i>Rosa Zubizarreta<br></i></span></div><div dir="ltr"><span><i><a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" target="_blank"><b>www.DiaPraxis.com</b></a><br></i></span><br><span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Michael M Pannwitz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mmpannwitz@gmail.com" target="_blank">mmpannwitz@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear Rosa,<br>
<br>
one of my clients employed OST in his organisation on two different levels every year over a decade. That meant two OSTs per year. In addition he in turn initiated several OST events in his client system and sponsored trainings for OST facilitators on a European level.<br>
<br>
He is the only one that I know of who recorded the effects of OST in his organisation and the extended system it operates in under several aspects.<br>
<br>
You can study it in a six-language ebook which is available here<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<a href="https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Practicing-Open-Space-Our-First-Ten-Years-E-Book" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Practicing-Open-Space-Our-First-Ten-Years-E-Book</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Harrison wrote the preface and someone supplied a brief summary part of which I quote here:<br>
<br>
"As dictated structure, external control and traditional leading are reduced, selforganisation can more freely unfold, bringing into play the vast resources of everyone involved in the Agency. Without consulting firms that cost a lot of money and have no lasting effect, organizations evolve resilient structures and processes that equip them to navigate in a sea of constant change. And they do this on their own."<br>
<br>
Have a great day... and, by the way, to see the effect of "Mandating stuff is a recipe for disaster." on a large system scale look at the Greek tragedy unfolding presently<br>
<br>
mmp<span class=""><br>
<br>
<br>
On 18.07.2015 16:13, Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">
Daniel, I hear you mention repeatedly, that mandating stuff doesn't work.<br>
<br>
I fully agree with you.<br>
"Mandating stuff is a recipe for disaster."<br>
I agree.<br>
<br>
What's happening at Zappo's is nuts.<br>
I agree.<br>
<br>
I also agree with Harrison about the power and prevalence of the<br>
informal organization, everywhere.<br>
And, about the power of Open Space Technology to offer a "speeded up,<br>
concentrated experience of self-organization in action."<br>
<br>
what I was curious about (and I realize I didn't express it so<br></span>
clearly...) was about what happens /after/ OST events...<div><div class="h5"><br>
I'm curious to know, whether people in the organizations you know,<br>
generally remain content with having the hierarchical<br>
"patterns and flows of energy" remain in place (maybe as a sort of<br>
decoy??) while the informal organization continues in a more energized<br>
manner...<br>
<br>
or, if you have seen sometimes, a self-organizing move to create a<br>
"pattern or flow of energy" that "flash-framed", looks different than a<br>
triangle.<br>
<br>
(again.. NOT like what happened at Zappos. NOT "mandated from above".)<br>
<br>
I realize I have been making a (possibly unfounded) assumption that this<br>
is not happening very much.<br>
And, it may be that I am just uninformed...<br>
<br>
Another way of wording it...<br>
I'm curious to learn about instances where the<br>
already-happening-everywhere-self-organization,<br>
after being "speeded up and concentrated" via OST,<br>
leads to new structures (i.e. "freeze-framed patterns and flows of energy")<br>
that look different than the older ones.<br>
<br>
Feels like a valid question to me,<br>
yet not sure if this is the place to ask it...<br>
<br>
and, I am still sad that the tragically flawed circus at Zappos is<br>
giving participatory management a bad name.<br>
I do wish they had listened to you, Daniel.<br>
<br>
And/ or, to anyone else who might have helped them understand,<br>
that it's crazy-making and doomed to "mandate participation".<br>
<br>
with all best wishes,<br>
<br>
Rosa<br>
<br>
<br></div></div>
/Rosa Zubizarreta<br>
/<br>
/*<a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.DiaPraxis.com</a>* <<a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.DiaPraxis.com</a>><br>
<br>
/<br>
Author of *From Conflict to Creative Collaboration*<br>
<<a href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.conflict2creativity.com</a>><br>
*recent Dynamic Facilitation deep dives:*<br>
May 26-28**near*Bonn, Germany <<a href="http://tinyurl.com/DFGermany2015" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/DFGermany2015</a>>;* June<br>
12-16 in *Durham, NC<br>
<<a href="http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/</a>>*<<a href="http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/</a>><span class=""><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList<br></span>
<<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>><div><div class="h5"><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
I join Harrison is what he is saying.<br>
<br>
"...if we want a speeded up, concentrated experience of self<br>
organization in action, we know what to do."<br>
<br>
One time on the phone talking about this, Harrison (paraphasing,)<br>
you said:<br>
<br>
<br>
"..the real operating system is self-organization. Everything is is<br>
[an app.]"<br>
<br>
I like that quote.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting the NYT article: some interesting items in it....<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"The end result was what he refers to as an “operating system” for<br>
organizations."<br>
<br>
...stop right there:<br>
the holacracy people are really pushing this metaphor. "holacracy as<br>
operating system." Maybe not? Or maybe (scary idea) organizations<br>
are not machines at all. Maybe they are living systems? Which are<br>
not quite so easy to describe, manipulate, "program" ...and control?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"... Everyone must use the Holacracy software, called Glass Frog."<br>
<br>
...wait:<br>
Everyone MUST use? Really? How's that mandate actually working out?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"... Holacracy has been met with everything from cautious embrace to<br>
outright revulsion at Zappos, but little unequivocal enthusiasm."<br>
<br>
...stop right there.<br>
Maybe coercion is actually a bad idea?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"....I have five hours of meetings today.”"<br>
<br>
...stop right there:<br>
Are these meeting mandatory to attend? Can you opt-out of any of<br>
these "holacracy" meetings? Guessing no...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"... Mr. Hsieh sent a 4,700-word email to the entire company with an<br>
ultimatum: Embrace Holacracy or accept a buyout. "<br>
<br>
...wait: an ultimatum? Does that actually work?<br>
The spin is that all remaining employees are now "all-in." The<br>
reality is probably quite far from that:<br>
<a href="https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/zappos-holacracy-and-real-options-don-t-commit-early-unless-you-know-why-ba8a7741b1b" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/zappos-holacracy-and-real-options-don-t-commit-early-unless-you-know-why-ba8a7741b1b</a><br>
<br>
<br>
"... For all of the talk of self-management and consensus building,<br>
the decision to go down this path was Mr. Hsieh’s alone."<br>
<br>
Wait:<br>
Is this a command, from authority, to self-organize? If so, how does<br>
that actually work?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"...Mr. Hsieh he emphasized that learning Holacracy was like<br>
learning a sport — it would take years to get good at it."<br>
<br>
stop.right.there:<br></div></div>
Could this be code for "it could take years to */replace/*<span class=""><br>
everyone." ????<br>
<br>
If so, is this the new normal? Replace everyone? Does that actually<br>
count as a successful change/innovation program?<br>
<br>
<a href="https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/adopting-holacracy-at-zappos-6664d70c0b5d" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/adopting-holacracy-at-zappos-6664d70c0b5d</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Self-organization: Do coercive mandates actually work?<br>
<br>
If not: Is this what actually might scale? Is this what actually<br>
might work?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></span><span class="">
Daniel<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/18/15 8:05 AM, Harrison via OSList wrote:<br>
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class="">
<br>
Rosa said... “I do think it would be kinda fun for all of that<br>
self-organizing that is already happening anyway, to come up with<br>
some alternative structures to the regular old pyramids we see all<br></span>
over the place...a bit of color in the landscape, as it were...” ____<br>
<br>
__ __<span class=""><br>
<br>
Rosa --There is a big secret. “All that self-organizing” is coming<br>
up with new structures every moment. “Structure” is actually an<br>
inaccurate way of talking about what is happening... more like<br>
patterns or flow of energy. “Flash framed” it does look like a<br>
structure, but that is really an illusion. An artifact of our<br></span>
perception. But it sort of works. ____<br>
<br>
__ __<span class=""><br>
<br>
Anyhow, it seems to me that there is some 13.7 billion years worth<br>
of examples of just precisely what you are talking about. It is<br>
only very recently that we (Homo sapiens) tried doing our own<br>
thing. Lots of wonderful names (Process re-engineering, etc) but<br>
precious little positive impact that I can see. Yes I know<br>
sometimes it seems that these marvelous inventions of ours seem to<br>
work...and of course lots of people make lots of money maintaining<br>
the illusion. But in moments of honesty, usually over a drink,<br>
everybody who has been around, even for a little bit, is totally<br>
aware that nothing ever happened according to the plan, design,<br>
etc... When pushed for source, the usual answer (given very<br>
quietly) is “The Informal System,” which by definition nobody<br>
organized. And that drives Management to despair. In fact they try<br></span>
to kill “the informal system” at every opportunity. ____<br>
<br>
__ __<span class=""><br>
<br>
Amazing, folks are busily containing, controlling, and destroying<br>
the one thing that enables organizations to function. Is that<br>
nuts? Seems to me that before we design anything new, it would be<br>
well to sit quietly and fully appreciate what is already there,<br>
and doing quite well. Thank you. And of course if we want a<br>
speeded up, concentrated experience of self organization in<br>
action, we know what to do. Works every time as long as we don’t<br></span>
try to organize it. Wonderful!____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
Harrison____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
Winter Address____<br>
<br>
7808 River Falls Drive____<br>
<br>
Potomac, MD 20854____<br>
<br>
<a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a> <tel:<a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a>>____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
Summer Address____<br>
<br>
189 Beaucaire Ave.____<br>
<br>
Camden, ME 04843____<br>
<br>
<a href="tel:207-763-3261" value="+12077633261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a> <tel:<a href="tel:207-763-3261" value="+12077633261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a>>____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
Websites____<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a> <http://%<a href="http://20www.openspaceworld.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">20www.openspaceworld.com</a>>____<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.ho-image.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a> <<a href="http://www.ho-image.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ho-image.com</a>>____<span class=""><br>
<br>
OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the<br>
archives of OSLIST Go<br></span>
to:<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org____" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org____</a><br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
*From:*OSList [mailto:<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] *On<br>
Behalf Of *Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList<br>
<br>
<br>
*Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 10:05 PM<br>
*To:* Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list<br>
*Subject:* Re: [OSList] Zappos Being Zapped____<br>
<br>
__ __<span class=""><br>
<br>
Yes, Daniel, as you wrote, "mandating a process change is a recipe<br></span>
for disaster."____<span class=""><br>
<br>
REGARDLESS of what the process is...<br>
but ESPECIALLY if it's one that's supposed to "help people feel<br></span>
more empowered". ____<br>
<br>
for me, it's sad to see what's happening at Zappo's.____<span class=""><br>
<br>
especially because i happen to think that interlocking circles is<br></span>
a fairly decent structure,____<br>
<br>
as far as structures go...____<br>
<br>
__ __<span class=""><br>
<br>
I'm not so much of a fan of the decision-making aspect of<br></span>
holocracy/sociocracy...____<br>
<br>
but the structural part feels fairly sound to me.____<span class=""><br>
<br>
i know the orthodoxy around here is that "it's all self-organizing<br></span>
anyway"...____<span class=""><br>
<br>
at the same time, I do think it would be kinda fun for all of that<br></span>
self-organizing that is already happening anyway,____<span class=""><br>
<br>
to come up with some alternative structures to the regular old<br></span>
pyramids we see all over the place...____<br>
<br>
a bit of color in the landscape, as it were... ____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
i guess we're just not that evolved yet! :-) ____<br>
<br>
with all best wishes,____<br>
<br>
Rosa____<br>
<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
/Rosa Zubizarreta/____<br>
<br>
/*<a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.DiaPraxis.com</a>* <<a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.DiaPraxis.com</a>>/____<br>
<br>
Author of *From Conflict to Creative Collaboration*<br>
<<a href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.conflict2creativity.com</a>>____<br>
<br>
*recent Dynamic Facilitation deep dives:*<br>
May 26-28**near*Bonn, Germany <<a href="http://tinyurl.com/DFGermany2015" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/DFGermany2015</a>>;*<br>
June 12-16 in *Durham, NC<br>
<<a href="http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/</a>>*<<a href="http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/</a>><br>
____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
__ __<span class=""><br>
<br>
On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList<br>
<<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br></span>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>> wrote:____<span class=""><br>
<br>
Sheesh. Yes, and...<br>
<br>
..I did some consulting for Zappos in prior years. As part of<br>
that, I know Tony and have taken some meals with him, some at his<br>
home.<br>
<br>
In early 2014, I had lunch with Tony and some of his staff. A very<br>
dear friend arranged the meeting.<br>
<br>
The purpose was to introduce him to Open Space and discuss how it<br>
might be a good tool for helping encourage self-organization at<br>
the Downtown project (DTP) and Zappos proper. During that meal, I<br>
left him with a printed copy of the BRIEF GUIDE, and some pictures<br>
of what OST in action looks like. Not too much stuff, just enough<br>
to hopefully get him interested. A kind of invitation as it were.<br>
<br>
At the time, he described some issues with "holacracy" at the DTP<br>
and Zappos itself. I explained how OST might actually be perfect<br>
given the situation an timing. I left the meeting upbeat and<br>
thinking he might go all the way.<br>
<br>
It didn't take.<br>
<br>
Later in March 2014, I wrote this:<br>
<a href="http://newtechusa.net/agile/the-mandate-of-holacracy-at-zappos/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://newtechusa.net/agile/the-mandate-of-holacracy-at-zappos/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
The self-organizing universe creates stories you just cannot make up.<br>
<br>
Example:<br>
<a href="https://pando.com/2015/07/08/staff-tony-hsiehs-downtown-project-voted-abandon-holacracy-nine-months-ago/fcbd6b7081af428b88d24fddd3fbadfbee6910ea/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://pando.com/2015/07/08/staff-tony-hsiehs-downtown-project-voted-abandon-holacracy-nine-months-ago/fcbd6b7081af428b88d24fddd3fbadfbee6910ea/</a><br>
<br>
Regards,<br></span>
Daniel ____<br>
<br>
__ __<br>
<br>
On 7/17/15 5:26 PM, Harrison via OSList wrote:____<br>
<br>
From the New York Times: *<a href="http://nyti.ms/1Jn1nwh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://nyti.ms/1Jn1nwh</a> *<br>
<<a href="http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCKC2wiZPkcVUlDMaFOsPrCW&user_id=d0877bb1019932ce3160783833511913&email_type=eta&task_id=1437166724712134®i_id=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCKC2wiZPkcVUlDMaFOsPrCW&user_id=d0877bb1019932ce3160783833511913&email_type=eta&task_id=1437166724712134®i_id=0</a>> Do<span class=""><br>
Love this story. Zappo is going to install holarchical, self<br>
organizing management systems. How many oxymoron’s can you<br>
get in one sentence? And according to the Times, the big<br>
problem is that nobody can understand what is going on.<br>
Marvelous! – As bright as Homo sapiens may be, we really don’t<br>
have clue when it comes to the complex, interconnected world<br>
on which we are momentarily passengers. But no worries. It<br>
really doesn’t depend on “our understanding.” A fact that “we”<br>
all experience each and every time we have the privilege of<br>
“Opening Space.” We don’t understand it. We don’t “do it.”<br>
Seems to happen pretty much by itself. Just marvelous...<br>
Holarchical, self organizing, management system! Happens every<br></span>
time. All by itself.____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Harrison____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Winter Address____<br>
<br>
7808 River Falls Drive____<br>
<br>
Potomac, MD 20854____<br>
<br>
<a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a> <tel:<a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a>>____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Summer Address____<br>
<br>
189 Beaucaire Ave.____<br>
<br>
Camden, ME 04843____<br>
<br>
<a href="tel:207-763-3261" value="+12077633261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a> <tel:<a href="tel:207-763-3261" value="+12077633261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a>>____<br>
<br>
____<br>
<br>
Websites____<br>
<br>
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Daniel Mezick, President<br>
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Examine my new book:The Culture Game<br>
<<a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/</a>>: Tools for the<br>
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