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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rosa – You are coming through loud and clear. And not only is it appropriate to pose such issues here, but “here” is probably one of the few “places” such heretical questions can be raised. So carry on!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There is one very important “a priori” for me when it comes to answering your questions about what happens next... That is: It is all self organizing, even in those situation where we actually thought we were doing the organizing. So the issue (for me) is never about “becoming self organizing”. You already are. The critical question is, How well are you (whatever organization) doing it? I think it fair to say that most people are not doing it very well. There are also lots of people who are not only “doing self organization” badly, but fighting every inch of the way. For those folks, a bad situation has become toxic. I suspect we all know of places like that. The tension is so thick you can cut it, fear is the dominant modality, and smiling is totally against the law. I call it Soul Pollution. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So what happens after an “open space” even in a toxic environment with massive Soul Pollution? After 30 years and God knows how many situations I can truthfully say I have never seen the Kingdom of God, Nirvana, Ideal Organization... whatever... break forth. And I am pretty sure that if I had another 30 years (God forbid), my observation would remain unchanged. However...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have seen situations where everybody in the organization recognized how sick it was and they simply dissolved the organization. Progress I think. I have seen sworn enemies (who spent a lot of time killing each other) finding common space, even to the point of hugging each other. I have received calls from all sorts of people, senior executives to the shop floor, telling me that they now knew that life where they were was impossible and they had to leave, and could I help. And more and more and more... Seems like getting over a serious malaise takes a little doing, one step at a time, so to speak. But for sure the first step is to recognize how sick/pained/compromised/.... you are. That recognition in itself can be quite shocking and very painful. So I am never surprised with tears and anger. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I suppose this could be depressing but my experience has been quite the opposite: A massive re-affirmation of life. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harrison <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Winter Address<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7808 River Falls Drive<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Summer Address<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>189 Beaucaire Ave.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Camden, ME 04843<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>207-763-3261<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Websites<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="%20www.openspaceworld.com"> www.openspaceworld.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>OSLIST </span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 18, 2015 10:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] Zappos Being Zapped<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Daniel, I hear you mention repeatedly, that mandating stuff doesn't work.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I fully agree with you. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>"Mandating stuff is a recipe for disaster."<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I agree. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>What's happening at Zappo's is nuts.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I agree.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I also agree with Harrison about the power and prevalence of the informal organization, everywhere.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>And, about the power of Open Space Technology to offer a "speeded up, concentrated experience of self-organization in action."<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>what I was curious about (and I realize I didn't express it so clearly...) was about what happens <i>after</i> OST events...<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm curious to know, whether people in the organizations you know, generally remain content with having the hierarchical<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>"patterns and flows of energy" remain in place (maybe as a sort of decoy??) while the informal organization continues in a more energized manner...<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>or, if you have seen sometimes, a self-organizing move to create a "pattern or flow of energy" that "flash-framed", looks different than a triangle. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>(again.. NOT like what happened at Zappos. NOT "mandated from above".)<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I realize I have been making a (possibly unfounded) assumption that this is not happening very much. <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>And, it may be that I am just uninformed...<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Another way of wording it... <br>I'm curious to learn about instances where the already-happening-everywhere-self-organization,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>after being "speeded up and concentrated" via OST, <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>leads to new structures (i.e. "freeze-framed patterns and flows of energy")<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>that look different than the older ones.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Feels like a valid question to me,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>yet not sure if this is the place to ask it...<br><br>and, I am still sad that the tragically flawed circus at Zappos is giving participatory management a bad name. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I do wish they had listened to you, Daniel. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br>And/ or, to anyone else who might have helped them understand, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>that it's crazy-making and doomed to "mandate participation".<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>with all best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Rosa <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><i>Rosa Zubizarreta</i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><i><a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" target="_blank"><b>www.DiaPraxis.com</b></a></i><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Author of <a href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com" target="_blank"><b>From Conflict to Creative Collaboration</b></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>recent Dynamic Facilitation deep dives:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span> <br>May 26-28<b> </b>near<b> <a href="http://tinyurl.com/DFGermany2015" target="_blank">Bonn, Germany</a>;</b> June 12-16 in <b><a href="http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/" target="_blank">Durham, NC</a></b><a href="http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/" target="_blank"> </a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I join Harrison is what he is saying. <br><br>"...<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>if we want a speeded up, concentrated experience of self organization in action, we know what to do."</span><br><br>One time on the phone talking about this, Harrison (paraphasing,) you said: <br><br><br>"..the real operating system is self-organization. Everything is is [an app.]"<br><br>I like that quote.<br><br><br><br>Quoting the NYT article: some interesting items in it....<br><br><br><br>"The end result was what he refers to as an “operating system” for organizations."<br><br>...stop right there: <br>the holacracy people are really pushing this metaphor. "holacracy as operating system." Maybe not? Or maybe (scary idea) organizations are not machines at all. Maybe they are living systems? Which are not quite so easy to describe, manipulate, "program" ...and control?<br><br><br><br><br>"... Everyone must use the Holacracy software, called Glass Frog."<br><br>...wait:<br>Everyone MUST use? Really? How's that mandate actually working out?<br><br><br><br><br>"... Holacracy has been met with everything from cautious embrace to outright revulsion at Zappos, but little unequivocal enthusiasm."<br><br>...stop right there.<br>Maybe coercion is actually a bad idea?<br><br><br><br><br>"....I have five hours of meetings today.”"<br><br>...stop right there:<br>Are these meeting mandatory to attend? Can you opt-out of any of these "holacracy" meetings? Guessing no...<br><br><br><br>"... Mr. Hsieh sent a 4,700-word email to the entire company with an ultimatum: Embrace Holacracy or accept a buyout. "<br><br>...wait: an ultimatum? Does that actually work?<br>The spin is that all remaining employees are now "all-in." The reality is probably quite far from that:<br><a href="https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/zappos-holacracy-and-real-options-don-t-commit-early-unless-you-know-why-ba8a7741b1b" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/zappos-holacracy-and-real-options-don-t-commit-early-unless-you-know-why-ba8a7741b1b</a><br><br><br>"... For all of the talk of self-management and consensus building, the decision to go down this path was Mr. Hsieh’s alone."<br><br>Wait:<br>Is this a command, from authority, to self-organize? If so, how does that actually work?<br><br><br><br>"...Mr. Hsieh he emphasized that learning Holacracy was like learning a sport — it would take years to get good at it."<br><br>stop.right.there:<br>Could this be code for "it could take years to <b><i>replace</i></b> everyone." ???? <br><br>If so, is this the new normal? Replace everyone? Does that actually count as a successful change/innovation program? <br><br><a href="https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/adopting-holacracy-at-zappos-6664d70c0b5d" target="_blank">https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/adopting-holacracy-at-zappos-6664d70c0b5d</a><br><br><br><br><br>Self-organization: Do coercive mandates actually work?<br><br>If not: Is this what actually might scale? Is this what actually might work?<br><img border=0 width=269 height=153 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.png@01D0C14A.6890DFD0"><br><br><br><br><br>Daniel <br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 7/18/15 8:05 AM, Harrison via OSList wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rosa said...</span> “<span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I do think it would be kinda fun for all of that self-organizing that is already happening anyway, to come up with some alternative structures to the regular old pyramids we see all over the place...a bit of color in the landscape, as it were...” </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Rosa --There is a big secret. “All that self-organizing” is coming up with new structures every moment. “Structure” is actually an inaccurate way of talking about what is happening... more like patterns or flow of energy. “Flash framed” it does look like a structure, but that is really an illusion. An artifact of our perception. But it sort of works. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Anyhow, it seems to me that there is some 13.7 billion years worth of examples of just precisely what you are talking about. It is only very recently that we (Homo sapiens) tried doing our own thing. Lots of wonderful names (Process re-engineering, etc) but precious little positive impact that I can see. Yes I know sometimes it seems that these marvelous inventions of ours seem to work...and of course lots of people make lots of money maintaining the illusion. But in moments of honesty, usually over a drink, everybody who has been around, even for a little bit, is totally aware that nothing ever happened according to the plan, design, etc... When pushed for source, the usual answer (given very quietly) is “The Informal System,” which by definition nobody organized. And that drives Management to despair. In fact they try to kill “the informal system” at every opportunity. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Amazing, folks are busily containing, controlling, and destroying the one thing that enables organizations to function. Is that nuts? Seems to me that before we design anything new, it would be well to sit quietly and fully appreciate what is already there, and doing quite well. Thank you. And of course if we want a speeded up, concentrated experience of self organization in action, we know what to do. Works every time as long as we don’t try to organize it. Wonderful!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harrison</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Winter Address</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7808 River Falls Drive</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Potomac, MD 20854</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:301-365-2093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Summer Address</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>189 Beaucaire Ave.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Camden, ME 04843</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:207-763-3261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Websites</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://%20www.openspaceworld.com" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.ho-image.com" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>OSLIST </span><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> OSList [<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 17, 2015 10:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] Zappos Being Zapped<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Yes, Daniel, as you wrote, "mandating a process change is a recipe for disaster."<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>REGARDLESS of what the process is... <br>but ESPECIALLY if it's one that's supposed to "help people feel more empowered". <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>for me, it's sad to see what's happening at Zappo's.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>especially because i happen to think that interlocking circles is a fairly decent structure,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>as far as structures go...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I'm not so much of a fan of the decision-making aspect of holocracy/sociocracy...<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>but the structural part feels fairly sound to me.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>i know the orthodoxy around here is that "it's all self-organizing anyway"...<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>at the same time, I do think it would be kinda fun for all of that self-organizing that is already happening anyway,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>to come up with some alternative structures to the regular old pyramids we see all over the place...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>a bit of color in the landscape, as it were... <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>i guess we're just not that evolved yet! :-) <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>with all best wishes,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Rosa<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><i>Rosa Zubizarreta</i><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><i><a href="http://www.DiaPraxis.com" target="_blank"><b>www.DiaPraxis.com</b></a></i><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Author of <a href="http://www.conflict2creativity.com" target="_blank"><b>From Conflict to Creative Collaboration</b></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>recent Dynamic Facilitation deep dives:</span></b><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span> <br>May 26-28<b> </b>near<b> <a href="http://tinyurl.com/DFGermany2015" target="_blank">Bonn, Germany</a>;</b> June 12-16 in <b><a href="http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/" target="_blank">Durham, NC</a></b><a href="http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/" target="_blank"> </a> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Sheesh. Yes, and...<br><br>..I did some consulting for Zappos in prior years. As part of that, I know Tony and have taken some meals with him, some at his home. <br><br>In early 2014, I had lunch with Tony and some of his staff. A very dear friend arranged the meeting.<br><br>The purpose was to introduce him to Open Space and discuss how it might be a good tool for helping encourage self-organization at the Downtown project (DTP) and Zappos proper. During that meal, I left him with a printed copy of the BRIEF GUIDE, and some pictures of what OST in action looks like. Not too much stuff, just enough to hopefully get him interested. A kind of invitation as it were.<br><br>At the time, he described some issues with "holacracy" at the DTP and Zappos itself. I explained how OST might actually be perfect given the situation an timing. I left the meeting upbeat and thinking he might go all the way. <br><br>It didn't take. <br><br>Later in March 2014, I wrote this:<br><a href="http://newtechusa.net/agile/the-mandate-of-holacracy-at-zappos/" target="_blank">http://newtechusa.net/agile/the-mandate-of-holacracy-at-zappos/</a><br><br><br>The self-organizing universe creates stories you just cannot make up. <br><br>Example: <br><a href="https://pando.com/2015/07/08/staff-tony-hsiehs-downtown-project-voted-abandon-holacracy-nine-months-ago/fcbd6b7081af428b88d24fddd3fbadfbee6910ea/" target="_blank">https://pando.com/2015/07/08/staff-tony-hsiehs-downtown-project-voted-abandon-holacracy-nine-months-ago/fcbd6b7081af428b88d24fddd3fbadfbee6910ea/</a><br><br>Regards,<br>Daniel <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On 7/17/15 5:26 PM, Harrison via OSList wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>From the New York Times: <a href="http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCKC2wiZPkcVUlDMaFOsPrCW&user_id=d0877bb1019932ce3160783833511913&email_type=eta&task_id=1437166724712134®i_id=0" target="_blank"><b>http://nyti.ms/1Jn1nwh </b></a> Do Love this story. Zappo is going to install holarchical, self organizing management systems. How many oxymoron’s can you get in one sentence? And according to the Times, the big problem is that nobody can understand what is going on. Marvelous! – As bright as Homo sapiens may be, we really don’t have clue when it comes to the complex, interconnected world on which we are momentarily passengers. But no worries. It really doesn’t depend on “our understanding.” A fact that “we” all experience each and every time we have the privilege of “Opening Space.” We don’t understand it. We don’t “do it.” Seems to happen pretty much by itself. Just marvelous... Holarchical, self organizing, management system! Happens every time. All by itself.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Harrison<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Winter Address<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>7808 River Falls Drive<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="tel:301-365-2093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Summer Address<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>189 Beaucaire Ave.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Camden, ME 04843<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="tel:207-763-3261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Websites<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://%20www.openspaceworld.com" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://www.ho-image.com" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>OSLIST <span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>OSList mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Past archives can be viewed here: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><p>Daniel Mezick, President<o:p></o:p></p><p>New Technology Solutions Inc.<o:p></o:p></p><p><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" target="_blank">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)<o:p></o:p></p><p><a href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/" target="_blank">Bio</a>. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/" target="_blank">Blog</a>. <a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/" target="_blank">Twitter</a>. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Examine my new book: <a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank">The Culture Game </a>: Tools for the Agile Manager.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Explore Agile Team <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/" target="_blank">Training</a> and <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/" target="_blank">Coaching.</a><o:p></o:p></p><p>Explore the <a href="http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/" target="_blank">Agile Boston </a>Community. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>_______________________________________________<br>OSList mailing list<br>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br>Past archives can be viewed here: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>OSList mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Past archives can be viewed here: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><p>Daniel Mezick, President<o:p></o:p></p><p>New Technology Solutions Inc.<o:p></o:p></p><p><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" target="_blank">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)<o:p></o:p></p><p><a href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/" target="_blank">Bio</a>. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/" target="_blank">Blog</a>. <a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/" target="_blank">Twitter</a>. <o:p></o:p></p><p>Examine my new book: <a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank">The Culture Game </a>: Tools for the Agile Manager.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Explore Agile Team <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/" target="_blank">Training</a> and <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/" target="_blank">Coaching.</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p>Explore the <a href="http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/" target="_blank">Agile Boston </a>Community. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br>_______________________________________________<br>OSList mailing list<br>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a 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