<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Bhav, you wrote "...I think OST doesn't work for the way Dave Snowden wants to approach complexity, however that is different to the question of whether it is a method that does work in complex space."</span><div>
<span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I agree that in many complex situations, OST can be a great way to draw out and make room for people's natural creativity and motivation. and that little else may be needed.</span><br>
</div><div><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></span></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">In other complex situations, I've seen OST work well with other methods that are also well-suited for complexity. For example, at the Surfing Democracy conference in Batschuns, Austria, our hosting team offered the option of having Dynamic Facilitation for those OS sessions that wanted to make use of that method. It worked quite well -- the only difference being that participants who offered DF OS sessions usually booked a double time slot, to allow for the greater in-depth exploration that we do in DF. (Of course we work too hard, Harrison. Yet we have a <i>lot</i> of fun doing it! :-) </font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">with all best wishes,</font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Rosa</font></div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div dir="ltr"><i>Rosa Zubizarreta</i><div><i>Diapraxis: Facilitating Creative Collaboration<br><a href="http://www.diapraxis.com/" target="_blank">http://www.diapraxis.com</a></i></div>
<div><i><br></i></div><div><i>Celebrating my new book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Conflict-Creative-Collaboration-Dynamic-Facilitation/dp/1626526117/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1394491921&sr=1-1&keywords=from+conflict+to+creative+collaboration" target="_blank">"From Conflict to Creative Collaboration: A user's guide to Dynamic Facilitation"</a></i></div>
<div><br></div><div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Chris Corrigan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris.corrigan@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.corrigan@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>What a fantastic post. It has summed up much if my own thinking about Dave's dismissal of Open Space. </div>
<div><br></div><div>My take on this is that I have used Open Space to address complexity within the constraints if the cynefin framework and it works well. I have seen OST help with conflict and create innovation. I have never seen a silver bullet that says that "if we do this everything will be perfect". So we have to be sensitive to things like power and resources and such. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I don't know what evidence dave makes his assumptions upon but it's entirely possible he has been around poor facilitation for a lot of his career. </div><div><br></div><div>And then what else is valuable about his analysis is that it causes me to look at my own practice and see where I have been guilty of some of the things he says. It's useful to have a critical view. </div>
<div><br></div><div>I've known about Dave's dismissal of these ways of working for a long time and he's known about my championing of these ways of working. It hasn't stopped us having conversations online about our work and it hasn't prevented me from using his tools. </div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>Chris<br><br><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">-- </span><div>CHRIS CORRIGAN</div><div>Harvest Moon Consultants</div><div>Facilitation, Open Space Technology and process design </div>
<div><br></div><div>Check <a href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com" target="_blank">www.chriscorrigan.com</a> for upcoming workshops, blog posts and free resources. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></font></span><div>
<div class="h5"><div><br>On Aug 1, 2014, at 11:02 PM, Harold Shinsato <<a href="mailto:harold@shinsato.com" target="_blank">harold@shinsato.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div>Chris - thank you again for the mention
of the Cynefin framework. I very much enjoyed your youtube
presentation about the framework to the Art of Hosting Community
at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRn3BM56W74" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRn3BM56W74</a>.
It was well worth the 55 minutes. I especially enjoyed your
questions and answers section.<br>
<br>
After I listened, YouTube presented a related video of a keynote
by David Snowden to a Lean, Agile & Scrum conference in
Europe. His talk is titled "Making Sense of Complexity". <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6RfqmTZejU" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6RfqmTZejU</a><br>
<br>
I found his talk brilliant. I enjoyed the insights, but also the
challenges. David called himself a "Constructive Irritant" or a
curmudgeon. I'm not sure I'd recommend the talk to everyone in
this group - but there is one piece that was particularly
confrontational and important. I carefully transcribed it for you
here. David Snowden makes these remarks while showing a slide of a
dragon towering over two Knights, and one Knight says "Oh No! A
big, evil, DRAGON!". The other says "Quick! Somebody hold a
meeting". Here is what David says (it is at 49:05 in the talk):<br>
<br>
"This sort of hold a meeting mentality, or worse still, I mean if
there was an Agile version of this, it would be 'Quick let's hold
an Open Space', because we can all have a nice time and nobody
will be challenged. Just to make a controversial statement: Open
Space is the enemy of innovation because it enforces consensus.
There are actually larger group techniques certainly which we and
others have developed which actually increase conflict because if
you don't increase conflict you don't get diversity and you don't
get proper testing. So the Law of Two Feet is the <b>enemy</b> of
innovation because it allows people to avoid confrontation where
they need to do confrontation. Right, it doesn't mean it doesn't
have value, but it's a contextual method."<br>
<br>
This statement from David actually interfered with my sleep. I
made me question for a couple hours my deep emotional investment
in OST. As mentioned earlier, I saw and still see Cynefin as a way
to help promote the use of OST. Earlier in David's talk, when he
described how to work in the complex space, his recommendations
sounded a lot like an OST event. But quote I offer from him was
clearly hostile to OST. My first reaction to his "irritant"
statement was that OST does *not* enforce consensus. But other
parts of his statement raise interesting questions. Is there value
in setting up large group processes that don't allow people to
avoid confrontation? Can OST prevent needed conflict?<br>
<br>
My take on Open Space as a method is that it has been traversing
the chasm on the innovation cycle between Early Adopter phase, and
Early Majority. I had expected Agile to help push Open Space over
to Early Majority. It sounds like OST may already be in the Early
Majority phase in the Agile community based on David Snowden's
missive against it. I've also predicted that OST will start facing
open and active hostility as it starts to break into Early
Majority. David Snowden may be some evidence this is happening.<br>
<br>
I'm quite curious how others receive this statement against OST
from David Snowden.<br>
<br>
Harrison, I quite enjoy what you've written, and I think there's
something in OST that most consultants and organizational
development experts are going to miss simply because the
fundamental assumptions of their traditions go 180 degrees in the
opposite direction of Open Space, wave riding, and the ancient
mystery we might now call our self-organizing universe. For me, I
don't think there is any end to the digging, because there is no
way a "theory of everything" will ever be able to capture it all.
And still, there are some of us that have not yet tired of
digging. But my aim in the digging into game theory, Agile,
Cynefin, brain science, Tavistock and group relations, sociology,
psychology, etc. etc. is not "how to deal with massive complexity
... by ... making models, and gathering data." The joy in the
digging is not to try to get to the bottom of it. There is no
bottom. There will never be a theory of everything. But making
maps, as long as we understand their fundamental limits, is a
wonderful thing. As long as we don't confuse them with the
territory.<br>
<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7/31/14 12:59 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Good
thinking Peggy, and having spent no small amount of time,
paper, and ink exploring the world of emergence or self
organization – I can definitely appreciate the effort. Helping
people to develop an awareness of the flow of the enterprise
is definite plus. Having said that, I find myself needing to
issue a caveat. Producing a model, even a very good model, of
the flow of self organization as it relates to complexity, is
not to suggest that we can fully understand the process, even
less that we could predict or control it. My experience has
been that the more I know, in the sense of actual experience
and perception, the less I understand. Perhaps it is the
advance of senility, but I find my rational capacity totally
overwhelmed and over-awed by the magnificent mystery of our
evolving cosmos. This is not simply the majesty of infinite
space/time – but equally the fantastic complexity, diversity
and connectedness of the smallest creatures. The Hummingbirds,
for example who feed at my window. The Paramecium (single
celled protozoa that swim in my lake). A single snow flake.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Some
might take my statement as the despairing cry of an old man.
The “old man” part is dead on... but there is no despair. Just
the opposite, in fact. It feels just wonderful! I am reminded
of conversations over the years with various “Systems
Thinking” friends. Bright people all, with enthusiasm
unbounded. They were certain that if they thought hard enough,
collected data long enough – for sure they could design the
perfect system, or at least understand the one of which they
were a part (their business, etc.). They sensed victory just
over the hill, and I surely wished them well. For myself,
inspired by their effort, I tried to do the same. But for me,
the harder I tried, the worse it got. In fact it became an
infinite regression into ultimate complexity. One could call
it an exercise in despair. But that is not how it felt...
Liberation was more to the point with the realization that you
just couldn’t get there from here...Wonderful!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">But
how to deal with massive complexity in real life situations if
not by thinking about it, making models, and gathering data?
It is not that thought, models and data were somehow evil or
useless, but in terms of my quest, they only led down a rabbit
hole out of which I could not come. And the harder I tried,
the deeper I sunk... It felt just wonderful to just stop
digging! But the complexity of life remained.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Somewhere
along the line an odd curiosity captured my attention. As our
marvelous natural experiment in self organization (AKA OST)
proceeded, it dawned on me that contrary to all of my
preconceived notions, multiple groups of people of all sorts
and conditions from every part of the world seemingly engaged
their complex, self organizing world in an effective and
productive fashion without benefit of prior instruction,
models of whatever sort, intense facilitation (handholding)...
In a word it appeared to be a natural act. Even more counter
intuitive (counter to my intuition and expectations) was the
fact that in those (relatively few) situations in which either
I or some colleague had endeavored to “prepare” the
participants with conceptual models, exercises of various
sorts, or explanation of the process (other than the normal OS
invitation to sit in circle) there was no visible sign of
improved performance, so far as I could see, and in fact there
was some indication of a decline. Now, almost 30 years into
the experiment I also have to say that my most difficult
groups, without exception, were those composed of The
Professionals. Those people who made it their business to
THINK about all the details (facilitators, systems theorists,
etc.). Eventually even these folks “got with the program” and
everything happened just as it usually does in Open Space. But
the shift occurred, as I saw it, only when they stopped
thinking about it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
think there may be a lesson here. Engaging complexity is not
primarily a rational act. Even though complexity is a basic
existential concern for all of us, right up there with Death –
the resolution to our dilemma will not be found through
rational enterprise (thinking about it). A major frustration
for us all! But the good news is that we do not have to travel
that route. Indeed we really don’t have to travel at all.
We’re already there!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Proof
is a slippery word, but I think it fair to say that the 30
year Natural Experiment of Open Space has rendered a verdict
almost as good. Highly Probable. Given our experience of
1000’s of groups effectively dealing with complex, conflicted,
inflammable issues prepared only by a 10-15 minute
invitation/introduction...It is highly probable that the
essential skills and mechanisms were already present within
the group prior to their arrival at the circle. In short they
were “already there.” No need to think about it. Just Do it!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Once
done, it is then time for rational reflection. In truth our
innate capacity for dealing with complexity, once awakened,
flows so seamlessly that most people hardly notice. At the end
of every Open Space in my experience the people evidenced some
real sense of joy, satisfaction, completion... and little
appreciation of how it all happened. It just was. That is all
they know, and all they care to know. That status may be more
than sufficient in the moment, but it is also true that
rational reflection in all its forms (model building, data
collection, etc) can enhance the appreciation, and deepen the
experience. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">As
one who has spent a lifetime doing all that “rational
activity” from model building to data collection (well, story
collection </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">),
I can truly appreciate and applaud the effort. Useful
undertaking, I think. BUT none of that can hold a candle to
the profound sense of wonder and awe that I experience in the
silence of my not-knowing. That is truly wonderful.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harrison<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Winter
Address<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">7808
River Falls Drive<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Potomac,
MD 20854<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Summer
Address<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">189
Beaucaire Ave.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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ME 04843<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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