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<span><span>Harrison, you say: <br>
<br>
"...Project Management as currently practiced ... it is usually
the absolute a antithesis of OS... </span><br>
<br>
"...Which represents a distinct liability for Project Management,
I think."<br>
<br>
This is heresy! Heresy I say<br>
<br>
We all (likely) realize of course that "project management"
represents an absolutely huge industry, with entrenched
institutions...deeply invested incumbents with turf to defend,
authority to maintain, etc.<br>
<br>
This thread is shaping to be a great, self-organizing spectator
sport...I'm making some popcorn<br>
<br>
</span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/23/14 9:56 AM, Harrison Owen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:002501cfa67d$f62b4f30$e281ed90$@net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html;
charset=US-ASCII">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered
medium)">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Bronwyn -- Personally, I think plans
are wonderful, even essential. But I find it very useful to
remember that the plan is the plan and not reality, in the
same sense that the map is not the territory, the menu the
meal, nor the book the experience. Each can be very helpful
within limits and in their own way. Plans describe where we
are intending to go, they bring us to the head of the trail,
so to speak. They even can be helpful along the way as a
sort of check list – but as every good general knows (and
will admit) the (battle)Plan is out the window the moment
the first bullet flies. Or, as a senior construction
engineer confided to me – the Prints (blue) are out of date
when the first shovel is turned.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>As for project management and Open
Space – I surely agree that as Project Management as
currently practiced ... it is usually the absolute a
antithesis of OS. Which represents a distinct liability
for Project Management, I think. A more appropriate
understanding would be to see the world as totally self
organizing sea, and project management is our attempt to
plot a course. Of course you can plot any course you want...
but at the end the course you sail is dependent upon the
winds and tides of the day. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Winter Address</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>7808 River Falls Drive</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Potomac, MD 20854</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>301-365-2093</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Summer Address</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>189 Beaucaire Ave.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Camden, ME 04843</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>207-763-3261</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Websites</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a moz-do-not-send="true">
www.openspaceworld.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a moz-do-not-send="true">www.ho-image.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>OSLIST </span><span>To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
OSLIST Go to:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> OSList
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Bronwyn Pagram<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 22, 2014 7:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Open Space os-list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] Management and Organization</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Mmmm. This is offered with the
greatest of respect for previous speakers. I am not on
board with any assertion that an implementation plan for
complicated - and complex - issues is not hugely valuable.
I am not sure if that is what is being said here... It may
be semantics.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I would see many activities -
building a bridge is the current example - where a
robust concept, design and implementation plan is
crucial to enabling an outcome that meets requirements:
Safety. Performance. Longevity. Good plans are always
the outcome of an extensive process of collaboration
between diverse groups and individuals. They don't
always get along. There is frequently disagreement and <i>much
</i>iteration to work out the optimal way forward. This
process continues every day right through the project to
when you cut the red ribbon declaring it open. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Is this process of collaboration
what you are thinking of here when you talk about 'open
space all the way'?</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I would just see that as part of
good project management. ???? </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I think my question/issue here is
that my concept of 'self-organising' is somewhat
separate from project management which I see as a
process that, if well designed and executed, ensures
that all the key voices are heard and taken account of,
and then takes a disciplined approach to making sure all
the myriad of required actions actually takes place. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Bronwyn</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chris.corrigan@gmail.com">chris.corrigan@gmail.com</a></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2014
17:47:20 -0400<br>
To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [OSList] Management and Organization</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Nothing ever happens
according to the plan. And OS helps with those
elements that take us by surprise. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
<br>
-- </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>CHRIS CORRIGAN</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harvest Moon
Consultants</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Facilitation, Open
Space Technology and process design </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Check <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com"
target="_blank">www.chriscorrigan.com</a>
for upcoming workshops, blog posts and free
resources. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
On Jul 22, 2014, at 5:06 PM, "Harrison Owen"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net">hhowen@verizon.net</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Chris – I love your
story, but I guess you have never built a
bridge. Neither have I. But I have been
involved in a whole mess of large
construction projects (The CIA, Dulles
International, etc) and I can tell you
NOTHING ever happened according to The Plan.
Open Space the whole way!</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Winter Address</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>7808 River Falls
Drive</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Potomac, MD 20854</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>301-365-2093</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Summer Address</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>189 Beaucaire Ave.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Camden, ME 04843</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>207-763-3261</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Websites</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://%20www.openspaceworld.com"
target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.ho-image.com"
target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a></span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>OSLIST </span><span>To
subscribe, unsubscribe, change your
options, view the archives of OSLIST Go
to:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
OSList [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chris.corrigan@gmail.com">chris.corrigan@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 22, 2014 2:58
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> World wide Open Space
Technology email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] Management
and Organization</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I seek simplicity in
trying to describe where and how Open Space
does it’s magic.</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>One of the ways I
have had excellent success over the years
in describing this work is derived from
David Snowden’s work on the Cynefin
framework. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The short story is
this:</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>We are faced all
the time with problems that are basically
knowable, and problems that aren’t.
Knowable problems mean that with the
right knowledge and expertise, they can be
fixed. A technical team can come together
and analyse the causes, work with what’s
available and craft a solution. Then they
can get an implementation plan in place
and go ahead and do it. These kinds of
problems have a start line and a finish
line. When you are done, you are done.
Building a bridge is one of those kinds
of problems. You build it and there is no
tolerance for failure. It needs to be
failsafe.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Open Space doesn’t
work well for those kinds of problems
because the solution is basically already
known, or at least knowable. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Then there are
problems for which no know solution
exists, and even if you did get a
solution, you can’t really “solve” the
problem because the problem is due to a
myriad of causes and is itself emergent.
For example, racism. Look around and you
will find very few people that identify
themselves as racists, but look at the
stats for Canadian society for example and
you see that non-white people are trailing
in every indicator of societal success.
Essentially you are seeing the results of
a racist society but no racists anywhere.
This is an emergent problem. Racism
itself is a self-organizing phenomenon,
notwithstanding the few people that
actively engineer racist environments.
Such a problem didn’t really start
anywhere and it can’t really end either.
What is needed is a way of addressing it,
moving the system away from the negative
indicators and towards something else.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>In other words,
this is a complex problem. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The way to solve
complex problems is to create many
“strange attractors” around which the
system can organize itself differently.
Open Space nis the best method I know of
for creating such strange attractors, as
they are born from the passion and
responsibility of those that want to
create change, and they are amplified by
people coming together to work on these
things.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It’s “post and
host” rather than “command and control.” </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>And because you
can’t be sure if things are going to work
out, you have to adopt a particular
mindset to your initiative: one that is
“safe to fail.” In other words, if it
doesn’t work, you stop doing it. If it
does work, you do more of it. And all the
way along you build in learning, so that
the system can see how change is made and
be drawn towards those initiatives that
are currently making a difference.
Certainly this kind of problem solving is
not useful for building a bridge, as you
cannot afford a failure there. But for
problems with no known solutions, it is
brilliant. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison has spent
decades outlining this simplicity in even
less words than I have now and his writing
and thinking is, and continues to be far
ahead of it’s time and maybe a little
under appreciated because it is delivered
in simple terms like “don’t work so hard.”
But ultimately this is the best and most
important advice for working in complex
systems. </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Open Space. Do it.
Learn. Do it again. Don’t work so hard.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>More than that
really starts to build in the delusion
that people can possibly know what to do.
From that place solutions will be
deluded. That they may work is pure luck.
Open Space offers us a disciplined
approach to addressing complexity in an
ongoing way. Don’t be fooled by its
simplicity.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Chris</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>On Jul 21,
2014, at 6:52 PM, Harrison Owen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net">hhowen@verizon.net</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Love what you
are saying... and I think you may be
working much too hard. From where I
sit, the basic reality is that all
the World is self-organizing. That
includes all the stuff we think we
“organized.” So the bottom line is –
we are all self organizing, and some
of us are doing it better. Which is
to say that some folks are
struggling to invent what is already
happening “all by itself,” and
others are allowing (appreciating)
what is happening all by itself.
For me, Open Space is simply a great
way of “practicing” what is already
happening. Even if we think it
isn’t. Or something.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Winter
Address</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>7808 River
Falls Drive</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Potomac, MD
20854</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>301-365-2093</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Summer
Address</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>189
Beaucaire Ave.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Camden, ME
04843</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>207-763-3261</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Websites</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openspaceworld.com">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>OSLIST<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></span><span>To
subscribe, unsubscribe, change
your options, view the archives of
OSLIST Go to:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"
target="_blank"><span>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>OSList
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org"><span>mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a>]<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></b>agusj<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday,
July 20, 2014 11:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>World
wide Open Space Technology email
list<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[OSList] Management and
Organization</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hello
Harrison, David S and David O,</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I find
the thread of this conversation
very interesting and inspiring.
In my opinion, the success of
using OS to transform businesses
in self-organizing organizations
depends of the way you do it. It
is very different to use OS as a
means to experience a different
way of organization than using
OS as a means to allow
organizations to have an
experience of themselves from a
context of self-organization. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>An option
of the first approach is to use
OS as an isolated practice in
the "old system". This way maybe
it can help to fix something,
but it is very possible that it
is not going to make a real
difference, if the organization
does not transfer in any way the
underlying conditions of OS to
its everyday environment. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>An
example of the second approach
is to use OS as a Trojan horse,
acting like a hacker. Under this
scenario, the organization adopt
OS as a common practice because
its effectiveness to solve
problems or to foster
innovation, or whatever. This
way, its continued use over time
probably generates a new
cultural context that
facilitates the emergence of
self-organization. It could take
time, but the chance that
self-organization put down roots
is higher than with the first
approach.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Agustin</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>PS -
Recently I read a book that
shows the cases of some
organizations that are defying
the "old system" very
succesfully. The name of the
book is Reinventing
Organizations written by
Frederic Laloux.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span>
<hr width="100%"></span></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>Harrison
Owen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net"><span>hhowen@verizon.net</span></a>><br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>'World
wide Open Space Technology
email list' <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org"><span>oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a>><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday,
February 5, 2014 12:09 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[OSList] Management and
Organization</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div id="ecxyiv7611179322">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>David,
Listen to your words...</span><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>“</span><span>we're
exploring the question of
how can we have some
structure and boundaries
and yet provide space for
self-organization. It's
hard to find models that
enable both.”</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I
hate to say it, and you
won’t be surprised, but I
think you are working much
too hard. Sounds to me
suspiciously like a
variant of “organizing a
self organizing system.”
Especially that part about
“find(ing) models.” The
systems you are
contemplating (your
business and the
Association) are their own
best models. Nothing else
will even come close
because they are unique.
And if self organization
is anything like I think
it is, one of its major
activities is the creation
of “structures and
boundaries.” That, by
definition, is what self
organizing systems do,
along with a few other
things. So the key
activity for me would be
to stop looking for
models, and start paying
careful attention to how
your two self organizing
systems naturally express
themselves in structure
and form.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Initially
your task will be
complicated by all those
“other” structures and
forms that have been laid
on, arbitrarily I would
say, just because it
seemed like a good idea at
the time – in accord with
the latest “models,” or
“accepted practice.” After
all, we think we all know
what an organization
SHOULD look like.</span><span>J</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>But
there is a way through the
forest, I think, which is
actually the “design
principle” I employed in
the development of Open
Space Technology. You’ve
heard it before.<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><b>Think
of one more thing NOT to
do</b>. Just keep
striping away those forms
and procedures that you
thought to be essential
for your organizations’
function. Don’t try to do
it all at once, and start
with what I might call the
low hanging fruit. Those
things that just get done,
even though nobody can
remember why.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Then
notice what happens. If
something comes back, that
is pretty good evidence
that it was a natural form
or structure, and your
systems, in their own
wisdom, felt the need. On
the other hand, if it
stays gone, just say bye,
bye, enjoy the new space,
and get on with your
business.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It
is true, of course that
some structures and forms
are required by external
authorities: Taxes, annual
reports, and the like. In
those situations, I have
found it helpful to ask,
“What is the minimal level
of form and structure
required to get the job
done?” For some reason,
people seem to make the
simplest things unendingly
complicated.<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><i>In
extremis</i><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>there
is a presumption that if
it is simple, it can’t be
any good. I’ve noticed
this on more than one
occasion with the public
perception of OST,
especially among those who
have never been involved.
I suppose this has
something to do with the
Expert Syndrome – if you
make it complicated enough
you will surely require
the services of an Expert
to help you through. For a
fee of course. And to be
honest, we in the OS
community sometimes seem
to be guilty of the same
thing.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So
there are some suggestions
to get started. If you
want more, and probably
more than you want – you
might take a look at Part
II of<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><i>Wave
Rider</i>, “A Wave
Rider’s Guide to the
Future.” And for a
slightly different slant
see Part IV of the<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><i>Power
of Spirit,</i><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>“The
Care and Feeding of the
Interactive Organization.”
And just to be clear, an
Interactive Organization
is my term for a
conscious, self organizing
system.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>PS
– And for the record, all
of the above are by yours
truly and available from <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://Amazon.com"
target="_blank">Amazon.com</a>
and the publisher,
Berrett-Koehler.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison
Owen</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>7808
River Falls Dr.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Potomac,
MD 20854</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>USA</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>189
Beaucaire Ave. (summer)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Camden,
Maine 04843</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Phone
301-365-2093</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>(summer)
207-763-3261</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.openspaceworld.com"
target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span></u></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ho-image.com" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a></span></u></span><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>(Personal
Website)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>To
subscribe, unsubscribe,
change your options,
view the archives of
OSLIST Go to:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"
target="_blank"><span>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="ecxyiv7611179322yqt80360">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org"><span>oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org"><span>mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a>]<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></b>David
Osborne<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday,
February 04, 2014 6:57
PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>World
wide Open Space
Technology email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[OSList] Management
and Organization</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison,</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I
had to laugh at my own
words as I re-read
them..<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><i>."support
leaders in adopting
approaches that move
toward greater and
greater levels of
self-organization."
</i>The system of
course is
self-organizing all
the time !!! </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Opening
space enables the
system it to move
closer and closer to
high performance
versus stuckness,
stagnation, decline
and death. If I
restate what I was
trying to express, I
think we can Open
Space in big ways as
an OS does and/or in
small ways through the
openness in leadership
approaches that
provide more space for
passion, creativity,
personal
responsibility etc.
This is working at the
micro-level though
versus the full
paradigm shift you
describe. I agree with
your description
whole-heartedly.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>You
raise for me very
pragmatic questions.
Both in our small
company, ChangeFusion,
and in a global
membership
organization I'm
involved in we're
exploring the question
of how can we have
some structure and
boundaries and yet
provide space for
self-organization.
it's hard to find
models that enable
both.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I'd
love to hear if others
have suggestions of
examples.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>David</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>On
Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at
2:54 PM, Harrison
Owen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank"><span>hhowen@verizon.net</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hello
David O. and David
S. I’ve re-titled
to give the thread
a new name if only
because I think it
is headed in some
new directions
with hopefully a
long and useful
discussion in
prospect.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>This
discussion may get
a little difficult
as we attempt to
define and
understand the
words we are
using,
“Management,” for
example. I had in
mind the more
common garden
variety of
Management’s role
in organizations.
As Wikipedia (that
source of all
useful
information)
notes, “Despite
the move toward
workplace
democracy,
command-and-control
organization
structures remain
commonplace as <i>de
facto</i> organization
structure.”
(Wikipedia). Back
in the old days a
common definition
of a good manager
was one who,
“Makes the plan,
manages to the
plan, and meets
the plan.” And we
all know how that
was supposed to be
done. Single word:
Control. Lots of
Command and
Control.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>David
has moved in new,
interesting and
effective
directions saying,
“What I have found
is that as I'm
able to share the
conditions that
support
self-organization
and how they can
be integrated into
individuals
leadership
approach that the
leaders move
toward approaches
that support
greater and
greater
self-organization.”</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I
applaud the
effort, but it
seems to me it may
be rather a half
step. If I hear
David’s words
correctly, the
fundamental
understanding of
“organization”
remains unchanged
(predesigned
structure and
controls with
Leaders/Managers
in charge) and the
new effort is to
enable “leaders
(to) move toward
approaches that
support greater
and greater
self-organization.”
Tactically I can
certainly
understand the
approach, but what
if organization is
fundamentally,
essentially, in
totality – Self
Organizing? If
that is the
situation,
“greater and
greater self
organization”
makes little sense
for a very simple
reason. It is all
self organizing to
begin with! But I
guess that is just
splitting hairs,
and for sure the
heart is moving in
the right
direction.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The
revolutionary in
me (and yes there
is some of that<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></span><span>J</span><span>)
would dearly love
to shake the
organizational
world by the
scruff of the neck
saying something
like, Move on,
Wake up! You just
can’t get there
from here. And for
a certainty, such
an approach would
have no chance of
success. There
needs to be a
change in view, I
am sure -- but
forced change,
were it even
possible, falls
back on the old
way which wasn’t
effective then and
won’t work now.
And there is
another way which
unfortunately
requires some
patient waiting.
But we may not
have to wait that
long.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It
is a very common
lament -- that,
“things just
aren’t working.”
What “things” and
the nature of
their dysfunction
are often left
unsaid, but the
universal
uneasiness is
pretty clear. To
date, the usual
response has been
to do more and
more of what we’ve
always done, but
maybe with a
different name
(Quality Circles,
Process
Re-Engineering,
Dialogue, maybe
even AGILE when
mandated etc.).
The results have
not been
inspiring. Some
would even include
Open Space
Technology as a
new tool. But I
don’t think that
works either if
the intent is to
fix the old
system.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>As
the lament
continues, some
strange things are
happening. Every
now and again
something actually
WORKS! And it
works even when
the plans are
busted, the
leadership is
incompetent, the
environment sour
and threatening.
Who knows how or
why – but it
worked. The Brits
usually call this
Muddling Through,
which is what
happens when
everything goes a
different way than
it was supposed to
– but it all turns
out fine. Phew!</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>There
is another name
for this strange
phenomenon.
Anomaly. Anomaly
literally means
being outside the
law (lawless) from
the Greek<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><i>a</i><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>(without)<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><i>nomos</i><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>(law). Anomalies cause one to
scratch the head
in wonder...How on
earth could THAT
happen? Most
often, we just
pass them by with
a dismissive,
“weird!” I think
that is a mistake.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Peter
Vaill, an old
friend and
colleague, had a
knack for
seriously noticing
anomalies. He
observed that some
organizations
performed at
levels of
excellence that
definitely blew
away the
competition. He
called them High
Performing
Systems. The
problem was, these
systems broke all
the rules of how
organizations were
supposed to work.
As a Professor of
Management, Peter
could be accused
of a flawed effort
because instead of
attempting to
analyze how they
worked, Peter
contented himself
with a delightful
description of
what they did,
which he captured
in a short paper
(1977<i>), The
Behavioral
Characteristics
of High
Performing
Systems</i>. I
say delightful
because he wrote
in a totally
colloquial
fashion, and
definitely not in
the style of
Academe, even
though he was the
(then) Dean of the
Business School at
George Washington
University.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Writing
almost 10 years
before Open Space
Technology, Peter
seems prescient,
for his
“Behavioral
Characteristics”
are a perfect
description of the
common behavior at
every Open Space I
have ever seen.
Taking a tall leap
in logic, I have
argued (Wave
Rider) that the
link between
Peter’s High
Performing
Systems, and what
we have
experienced in
Open Space is the
phenomenon of self
organization. Or
put somewhat
differently, High
Performing Systems
are well
functioning self
organizing
systems. And in
function and
effect they are
definitely
anomalous for
according to the
accepted wisdom,
they simply could
not happen or do
what they do!</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>On
the subject of
Anomaly and the
importance of
same, the work of
Thomas Kuhn comes
to mind. Author
of, “The
Structures of
Scientific
Revolutions,” Kuhn
gave us that
wonderful concept,
“paradigm,” as in
Paradigm Shift. As
an historian of
Science, Kuhn
describes how the
scientific world
grew in wisdom and
stature, passing
through several
understandings of
the nature of
things, on the way
to new (and
presumably better)
ones. That passage
he called,
Paradigm Shifts.
According to his
story, the
scientific or
learned community
held a certain
view of reality
for a period of
time, which worked
very well, and
seemed to explain
most, if not all,
of the phenomenon
of their
experience. This
view (paradigm)
was taken as The
Truth, and
defended with
ferocity. For
example, everybody
“knew” at one time
that the Earth was
the center of
everything and
those who
disagreed were
considered
heretics, and
often dispatched.
Galileo, for
instance. Then
funny little
anomalies began to
show up as people
observed the
heavens. If the
anomalies were not
an illusion then
Earth centeredness
was false – which
everybody knew
must be wrong,
insanity, or
worse. But the
anomalies refused
to go away, which
made people more
and more
uncomfortable, to
say nothing of
angry. Then one
shinning day the
view shifted. Same
old heavens as
before but seen
with totally new
eyes. Paradigm
shift. Very
powerful and never
comfortable.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>This
brief sojourn into
the History of
Science can be
helpful to our
present concerns,
I think, for we
are facing a very
similar situation
in our
understanding of
organizations, as
well as
management. The
traditional
understanding of
organization, and
therefore
management, has
been around for a
long time. As with
all paradigms, it
is taken to be The
Truth, and those
who challenge will
inevitably be
subject to
dismissal at the
beginning,
changing to
discomfort, and
perhaps ending
with anger. The
reason is very
simple. The
investments in
this particular
paradigm are
enormous, and
include ways of
life, ways of
making a living,
and for some, life
itself. Messing
with all of that
cannot be done
lightly.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>And
yet the anomalies
persist. Some are
quite subtle and
are perceived only
as a growing sense
that “things are
not working as we
expected.”
However, when the
system/organization
seems broken, it
is clear that we
must fix it and we
think we know how.
If the
organizational
process is screwy,
then obviously we
need Process
Re-Engineering.
But it didn’t
work. We try
harder and harder,
doing variants of
what we’ve always
done, and
(surprisingly) we
get what we’ve
always got. But
hope springs
eternal, and
someday we will
find The Fix. Or
so it says in all
the books. Maybe.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Other
anomalies are not
so subtle. Open
Space Technology
is such an
anomaly. I believe
it to be true that
Open Space
violates virtually
all principles and
practices of
traditional
organizational
theory and
management
practice. To the
extent that it
(OS) works as we
have experienced
it working – much
if not all of
current practice
is called into
question. My view
is doubtless
biased, but some
20 years ago, a
senior official
from the American
Society for
Training and
Development
(pardon the
repeat) seemingly
had the same
impression when he
told me, after
hearing what
happened in Open
Space, “Harrison,
if what you say is
true, then 99% of
what we are
currently do does
not need to be
done.” I would
have been greatly
relieved had I
been able to argue
with him. But I
couldn’t. I can’t.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So
David(s) – where
does that leave
us? Discretion
might dictate
picking up our
toys and going
home. Others might
suggest heading
for the
barricades.
Personally I don’t
think either
possibility is
very useful. I
simply cannot deny
what I have
experienced in
Open Space, nor
can I resist the
compulsion to
share the
experience in
whatever way with
whomsoever might
show up. I think
the bottom line
may come down to:
Move slowly with
empathy, and be
prepared to wait.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>And
what would that
mean for us and
what we do...? At
a practical level,
it could mean
something like
this. Let’s
suppose that the
Management of a
very traditional
Organization shows
up on our
doorstep. They are
concerned that
organizational
function is
dismal, the people
seem to dislike
each other and
what they are
doing, and profits
have disappeared.
The request is
simple: Help!
Somewhere they
heard about Open
Space and believe
(hope) it could
fix their system,
or at least make a
start.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It
sounds like a
marvelous
opportunity, and a
natural response
would be, YES! At
least that would
be my response.
All the essential
preconditions for
OS seem to be in
place (real issue,
complexity, etc) –
BUT ... There are
some issues to
consider. First,
if by “fixing
their system” the
client means that
the “traditional
Organization” is
going to be put
back together as
it once was, that
is a real problem,
I think. The
reason is simple –
the root of their
problems is
precisely the
system
(understanding of
organization) they
were working
under. Make it
even stronger.
Were I to design a
system that would
maximize
separation and
alienation,
minimize
creativity and
collaboration – I
don’t think I
could do any
better than the
system they were
operating under.
Fixing, or
restoring that
system would only
compound their
misery. Secondly,
Doing an Open
Space in that
organization is
quite likely to
increase the
general
dissatisfaction
with how things
are done. As one
senior executive
from a very
traditional
organization said
to me following an
Open Space we did,
“You have ruined
me for work in
this place. I am
not sure whether
to thank you or
hate you.” Talk
about being caught
on the horns of a
dilemma! If fully
successful with my
task (opening
space), I will
have failed the
clients’ primary
expectations
(fixing the
system) and
simultaneously
raised the level
employee
dissatisfaction.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>All
true, I think. And
I would still do
the Open Space,
but my reasons
could cause some
problems unless
very carefully
explained, and
that explanation
itself is
problematical. At
one level I will
do the Open Space
because I know
that it will
enable people to
be more
comfortable,
powerful, sure of
themselves. That’s
the easy part. But
at another level I
will do the Open
Space in order to
introduce
anomaly... one
more nudge towards
Paradigm Shift.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I
know full well
that I can’t shift
paradigms for
people. The same
is true of
Transformation,
which has a lot to
do with paradigm
shift. Both will
happen all by
themselves...or
not. But I can and
will nudge when
given the
opportunity. After
that it is all
about waiting...</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>So
what do you think
about all that?</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison
Owen</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>7808
River Falls Dr.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Potomac,
MD 20854</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>USA</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>189
Beaucaire Ave.
(summer)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Camden,
Maine 04843</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Phone<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><span class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span>301-365-2093</span></u></span></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>(summer) <span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><span class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span>207-763-3261</span></u></span></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.openspaceworld.com">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span></u><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a></span></u><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>(Personal
Website)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>To
subscribe,
unsubscribe,
change your
options, view
the archives of
OSLIST Go to:</span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"
target="_blank"><span>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><span>oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org"
target="_blank"><span>mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a>]<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></b>David
Osborne<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, February 03, 2014 9:47
AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>World wide Open Space
Technology email
list<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [OSList] Trust</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I'm
not sure I agree
OS fails as a
management
tool.....Self-Organization
has become the
lens I look at
all my work as
an individual
who supports
groups and
organizations in
change and in my
leadership and
management
development
work. It's not
an either / or
for me os works
or doesn't work
as a management
tool. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Leadership
is simply
supporting an
organization
in moving
toward its
goals. The
invitation in
OS is the goal
or issue that
people care
about. What I
have found is
that as I'm
able to share
the conditions
that support
self-organization
and how they
can be
integrated
into
individuals
leadership
approach that
the leaders
move toward
approaches
that support
greater and
greater
self-organization.
This is not
top-down,
traditional
leadership or
management. As
you propose in
Wave-Rider
Harrison, I
believe the
principles of
OS /
self-organization
can be
integrated as
a leadership
approach with
great results.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>David</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>On
Mon, Feb 3,
2014 at 8:57
AM, Harrison
Owen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank"><span>hhowen@verizon.net</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>David
– I would
totally agree
that OS</span><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>“</span><span>utterly
fails as a
management
tool.” Then
again I think
that OS shares
this
fate/condition
with all other
“management
tools,” at
least as I
understand
“management”
and “tool” in
the context of
enabling
effective
human
performance.
And thereby
hang the
beginning of a
long and
useful
discussion, I
think.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>ho</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison
Owen</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>7808
River Falls
Dr.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Potomac,
MD 20854</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>USA</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>189
Beaucaire Ave.
(summer)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Camden,
Maine 04843</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Phone<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><span class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span>301-365-2093</span></u></span></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>(summer) <span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><span class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span>207-763-3261</span></u></span></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><u><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.openspaceworld.com">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span></u><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><u><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a></span></u><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>(Personal
Website)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>To
subscribe,
unsubscribe,
change your
options, view
the archives
of OSLIST Go
to:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"
target="_blank"><span>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><span>oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><span>oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a>]<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></b>David
stevenson<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, February 03, 2014 1:51
AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>World wide Open Space
Technology
email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [OSList] Trust</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Ho
indeed
Harrison!
OpenSpace
opens space
for freedom of
spirit and
heart, choice
and the
weaving of our
fates and
destinies with
that of our
world, it does
not achieve
complience and
so, at least
to the extent
that people
are to be
managed...</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>On
Saturday,
February 1,
2014, Harrison
Owen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank"><span>hhowen@verizon.net</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Brendan
said: “And in
my view , all
germinating
from that
initial
transfer of
trust between
mentor and
sponsor” Right
on! I don’t
think it makes
a bit of
difference how
elegantly one
“does” the
Open Space. It
is really all
about TRUST.
When I said
that anybody
with a good
heart and good
mind can “do
it,” that is
just a long
winded way of
saying what
I’ve always
found to be
true.
Expertise is
interesting.
Integrity and
Trust are
essential. A
new comer to
the OS world,
opening space
for the very
first time,
muffing some
lines, and
forgetting
others – can
do every bit
as well as a
20 year
veteran. The
coin of the
realm is
Integrity,
authenticity,
trust. But
none of that
should be
news, for that
trio is the
bedrock of all
positive human
encounter, I
think. Which
may just be
another way of
pointing out
that OS is not
some special
process we do,
it is just
life lived
well. Or
something.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>ho</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Harrison
Owen</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>7808
River Falls
Dr.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Potomac,
MD 20854</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>USA</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>189
Beaucaire Ave.
(summer)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Camden,
Maine 04843</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Phone<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><span class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span>301-365-2093</span></u></span></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>(summer) <span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><span class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span>207-763-3261</span></u></span></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><u><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.openspaceworld.com">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span></u><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><u><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a></span></u><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>(Personal
Website)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>To
subscribe,
unsubscribe,
change your
options, view
the archives
of OSLIST Go
to:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"
target="_blank"><span>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><span>oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org"
target="_blank"><span>mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a>]<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span></b>Brendan
McKeague<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, February 01, 2014
12:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>World wide Open Space
Technology
email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [OSList] Sponsor PreWork
Conversation
(long)</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>A
very
interesting
question Chuni
Li...</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>The
sponsor was
being mentored
by one of my
colleagues in
our local Open
Space
community of
practice (Wave
Riders) who
suggested to
him that OS
was the right
method/model
for the task
at hand. As
his coach (the
formal role as
perceived by
the
organisation),
my colleague
encouraged the
sponsor to get
in touch with
me to avoid
any perceived
conflict of
interest. The
sponsor
researched OS
for himself
first and then
engaged me to
provide the
specialist
knowledge....Harrison
often says
that anyone
with a good
heart and head
can open space
- and I agree
- while at the
same time, I
acknowledge
that 'Open
Space wisdom'
is often
helpful, if
not necessary,
in situations
of increased
complexity and
potential
conflict. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>After
his initial
attraction to
OS in theory,
and as part of
his research,
the sponsor
then ran a
mini Open
Space within
his own
jurisdiction
to see how it
worked in
reality - he
wished to
speak from his
lived
experience
when engaging
with his
higher-uppers.
He also
watched a few
of the growing
library of
YouTube clips
that are so
wonderful for
educating
potential
sponsors. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Now
totally
convinced, the
transfer of
trust was
complete at
various
levels....trusting
the process
(OST works)
AND trusting
the
facilitator
(who was
aligned with
the essence of
OST - i.e
living in it)
AND trusting
that both
facilitator
and process
were
'fit-for-purpose'
in this
context. </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>And
in my view ,
all
germinating
from that
initial
transfer of
trust between
mentor and
sponsor</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Hope
this story
helps </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Cheers
Brendan</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>On
31/01/2014, at
1:10 PM,<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chunili2000@yahoo.com"
target="_blank"><span>chunili2000@yahoo.com</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Thank
you Brendan
for taking the
time to
organize and
share this
information -
so precious
and such a
generous gift!</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>I
am curious
about the
sponsor who
"put his neck
out" to make
the event
happen.</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Had
he experienced
OST before?
Did you have
to "convince"
him? What made
him willing to
"jump through
the hoops?"
Was it the OST
process or was
it you that he
trusted?</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>Chuni
Li</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span>New
Jersey</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"><span> </span></span><span>Brendan Mc</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
<br>
--<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
David
Stevenson<br>
Sent from
Gmail Mobile</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
_______________________________________________<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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list<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
To post send
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To unsubscribe
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To subscribe
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target="_blank"><span>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>--</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>David
Osborne</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><image001.jpg></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.change-fusion.com/"
target="_blank"><span>www.change-fusion.com</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>|<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com"
target="_blank"><span>dosborne@change-fusion.com</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>|<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><span
class="ecxmsohyperlink"><u><span>703.939.1777</span></u></span></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
_______________________________________________<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
OSList mailing list<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
To post send emails
to<span
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target="_blank"><span>OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><br>
To unsubscribe send
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To subscribe or
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>--</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>David
Osborne</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
id="_x0000_i1034"
height="58"
width="150"></span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.change-fusion.com/" target="_blank"><span>www.change-fusion.com</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>|<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com" target="_blank"><span>dosborne@change-fusion.com</span></a><span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span>| 703.939.1777</span><span></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div id="ecxyqt52024">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>_______________________________________________<br>
OSList mailing list<br>
To post send emails to<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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To unsubscribe send an email
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span><span></span></p>
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</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>_______________________________________________<br>
OSList mailing list<br>
To post send emails to<span
class="ecxapple-converted-space"> </span><a
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</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>_______________________________________________<br>
OSList mailing list<br>
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target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><br>
_______________________________________________
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href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
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</div>
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</div>
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<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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