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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Beautiful. Are the containers formed by
the vectors of caring, or are the vectors of caring
caused/nurtured/enabled by the container?<br>
<br>
I'm with Harrison on this one - the containers - including OST
itself - were really formed by "the vectors of caring", i.e.
Spirit. The best we can do as facilitators is invite people to
what's already there.<br>
<br>
The "experts" in economics at venerable institutions used to
teach, and unfortunately in too many places continue to teach,
that inflation is caused by rising prices. When in fact the
opposite is true. (Look it up in a dictionary.)<br>
<br>
I still find it fun to study the containers, and I hope folks
won't be discouraged from continuing the dialog. But I'm extremely
grateful for this reminder of the correct direction of causality
here. It's really like looking at the world as round, when all the
experts "know" it's flat.<br>
<br>
Thank you Harrison for helping us wake up to this!<br>
<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
On 4/8/14 1:48 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">David
– I have known Glenda for some years, and have always found
her to be bright, fun and contributory. She has some
wonderful insights about self organization, and she works
very hard. As a good academic, she certainly does her
detail, sometimes a bit more than I feel I want or need, but
good for all of that. However, when it comes to enhancing
our function in a self organizing world (or Open Space), I
suspect she is working a bit too hard. She and her fellows
have developed a whole series of approaches and exercises
which enable you to do what I find pretty much happens all
by itself. But that is probably just me. And for those of
you who want to know more about Glenda, I suggest her latest
book --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.amazon.com/Adaptive-Action-Leveraging-Uncertainty-Organization-ebook/dp/B00C3WSKV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396971594&sr=1-1&keywords=glenda+eoyang">http://www.amazon.com/Adaptive-Action-Leveraging-Uncertainty-Organization-ebook/dp/B00C3WSKV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396971594&sr=1-1&keywords=glenda+eoyang</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">And
now back to containers and boundaries. The issue (our
differences) may be purely semantic – but maybe not. As I
think back over lots of Open Spaces, and more particularly
what I might call the natural appearance of Open Space
(Tahrir Square, for example, or the coffee pot) I fully
agree that from the outside they all look like
bounded/contained experiences. There seems to be an inside
and an outside, a container of some sort. But the question
for me: – Is that boundary/container externally imposed, and
therefore prior to the process of self organization as a
precondition – or is the boundary/container a PRODUCT of the
process of self organization? As I read Glenda, she would
opt for the former: Container as precondition. I find myself
coming down on the other side – The apparent container is
actually a product of the process. In a word, what starts
out unbounded and disassociated (random people and things)
coalesces into a meaningful form, or better,
organism/organization – which is what self organization is
all about, I think. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
grant you that in an Open Space the “room” would seem to be
a pre-existing container, but I don’t see it as essential.
In fact I’ve “done” a number of Open Space in the middle of
an open field. And when you look at natural occurrences, I
think it becomes quite clear that pre-existing
boundaries/containers don’t really have much to do with what
is happening. They may be convenient or inconvenient, but
not determinative. The other things you mention (time slots,
bulletin board, etc.) don’t fit for me either. Helpful to be
sure, but you can get along quite well without any of it, or
so I’ve found.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So
what is going on? My sense is that self organization with
humans (in Open Space and/or everyday) commences when some
sort of a vector of caring shows up which draws people
together. Someone, somewhere, sometime says, or just thinks,
“I care about... Not just a little bit, but I really care
and am prepared to take responsibility for what I care
about. ” If this care/concern is shared – and others care
for the same thing, but maybe in very different ways... the
ball starts rolling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In
Open Space, this caring is made concrete and specific with
the invitation. Of course, when the invite is sent out
nobody has a clue whether anybody will come... but if they
care, they will come, and given a date/place, electronic or
physical they will all show up in one time/space. The vector
of caring will draw them in...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
the story I am telling roughly reflects the facts on the
ground, I think there are some interesting and serious
implications for the role of the facilitator and the
function of the container. EVERYTHING is well on the way
before there is a facilitator in sight or container at hand.
In a word, the system, from the first moment of its
emergence does it all by itself. We are bystanders, midwives
at best. And the container (whatever that might be) is the
product of the process ... and not the precondition or
cause.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Harrison<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Harrison
Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">7808
River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Potomac,
MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">USA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">189
Beaucaire Ave. (summer)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Camden,
Maine 04843<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Phone
301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(summer)
207-763-3261<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="www.ho-image.com%20"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue">www.ho-image.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">
(Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D">To
subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
archives of OSLIST Go to:</span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Osborne<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 07, 2014 12:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> World wide Open Space Technology email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] Open Space and Boundaries<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Harrison, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think this is one of the few times I
have a different point of view that you. I believe OS's
have natural containers built in. I also believe you need
a container for open space to be effective. I think the
difference stems from having a different definition or
viewpoint on what a container is and can be. My view has
been heavily influenced by Glenda Eoyang's theory and work
in this area. For something new to emerge from self
organization something has to hold our bind the diverse
agents together for them to have exchanges across their
differences. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- The room or space the OS is being
held in is a container. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- A concept or idea that people care
about brings the people together.....it binds or contains
them creating the space to have the conversations to
emerge. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">- The bulletin board is a
container.....scheduling a specific conversation at a
specific place and time. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In my experience there are always
multiple containers that are massively intertwined. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My thoughts along the way. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">David <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Michael
Wood <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:michael.wood@uwa.edu.au" target="_blank">michael.wood@uwa.edu.au</a>>
wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks, Harrison, for your response to
my question on 'boundaries', particularly your
paraphrasing of my question - which was spot on. One
thing I've taken from this brief conversation is that
although considering the boundaries can be useful, we also
need to accept that boundaries are never entirely clear,
always moving on a spectrum from clear to uncertain/murky
and if we, as a sponsor or facilitator, get overly bound
up with boundaries then we might have moved, once again,
into being too controlling. <br>
<br>
Michael Wood <br>
Perth, Western Australia <br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>
<br>
Message: 1 <br>
Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:01:40 -0400 <br>
From: "Harrison Owen" < <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net">hhowen@verizon.net</a>>
<br>
To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" <br>
< <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>>
<br>
Subject: Re: [OSList] Open Space and boundaries <br>
Message-ID: <000301cf4f56$00776480$01662d80$@net> <br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII <br>
<br>
It has been common for us to speak of Containers and
Boundaries as somehow essential to Open Space. I can't
quite find the place, but I do remember saying something
like that myself, as in, "The role of the facilitator is
to create the container..." It certainly made sense at the
time, but I always felt a little uncomfortable with the
image. Too mechanical, coercive... too something. And
Michael has brought the subject up again. "So...here we
have a situation where the 'boundaries' are actually in a
state of complex flux and uncertainty. The financial
'givens' are ambiguous; there is no 'locum' <br>
pastor in place because of legal uncertainties with the
existing pastor...etc." You might call it "messy
boundaries" -- and he raises the question whether one
should press ahead with Open Space, or wait until the
"mess" is settled down. On the one hand, Michael "hunches"
that one should press on -- Open Space. But his hesitation
comes, I suspect, from the prior notion that fixed
boundaries/containers are necessary for an effective Open
Space. What to do? <br>
<br>
Some thoughts (new ones for me): Containers are great for
cooking soup, but are unneeded and maybe even
problematical in Open Space. It is all about holding
things together. In Open Space groups of people come
together to deal with their issues. At the very least that
would mean gathering in some common time/space, be that
physical or electronic. It would seem that this
co-location could be facilitated were some suitable
"container" provided, presumably by the
sponsor/facilitator. This certainly makes sense, and as a
rough way of speaking, it seems to describe what is going
on. But as I think about it, I think we may be missing a
most important point. Coming together in Open Space
happens because people care to come. And they continue
their connection as long as they care to do so. (Law of
two feet) <br>
<br>
>From the "outside" it might look as if they were held
in place by a <br>
container, but that is illusory. The actual dynamics are
centripetal, the force is mutual attraction... people are
"there" because they care to be there and not because they
are contained by some external structure. In a word, we as
facilitators really don't do a thing, and creating a
container is the least of what we DON'T do. The people,
from the beginning, do it all. <br>
<br>
<br>
Of course, there are situations where groups come together
under orders, mandates, whatever. And they are definitely
"contained." It is also true that the tighter that
container, the less likely self organization will take
place. If true, providing a container is not only
unnecessary but also destructive. In the name of Opening
space, we effectively close it. Or so I suspect it might
be. Just thinking... <br>
<br>
Anyhow Michael, should my mental peregrinations lead
anywhere useful, it would seem that your "hunch" was spot
on. Forget the boundaries/container. <br>
Just invite the space to open. <br>
<br>
Harrison <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Harrison Owen <br>
7808 River Falls Dr. <br>
Potomac, MD 20854 <br>
USA <br>
<br>
189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer) <br>
Camden, Maine 04843 <br>
<br>
Phone 301-365-2093 <br>
(summer) 207-763-3261 <br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.openspaceworld.com" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ho-image.com"
target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website)
<br>
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
archives of OSLIST Go to: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
<br>
[mailto: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Michael Wood <br>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 9:59 PM <br>
To: ' <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>'
<br>
Subject: [OSList] Open Space and boundaries <br>
<br>
A Case Study.... <br>
One of the principles that I have generally worked with in
Open Space is helping the client get clear on the
'boundaries' of the space that's being opened. For
example, helping people who come into the space to know
'what up for grabs here and what isn't? What decisions
have already been made?' <br>
<br>
So picture this (purely hypothetical of course)....a
church community in which the pastor has (in many peoples'
opinion) run off the rails and the main church body is in
the process of trying to dismiss him; the church is in
compete disarray and completely conflict ridden, many
people have left; the pastor who holds all the keys,
banking passwords; church telephone connections etc etc,
has taken legal advice and had hunkered down in the church
owned house where he continues to hold the reigns of power
(via some of his 'allies' in the church) despite not
formally being the Pastor of the church anymore.... <br>
<br>
So...here we have a situation where the 'boundaries' are
actually in a state of complex flux and uncertainty. The
financial 'givens' are ambiguous; there is no 'locum'
pastor in place because of legal uncertainties with the
existing pastor...etc etc. <br>
<br>
So in terms of 'Opening Space', do we wait a bit longer
until some of the legal boundaries are clarified, OR open
space right away in the midst of the mess....my hunch is
the latter, but any thoughts from anyone? <br>
<br>
Cheers <br>
Michael <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>--<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>David Osborne<o:p></o:p></p>
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| <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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| 703.939.1777<o:p></o:p></p>
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