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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>David – I have known Glenda for some years, and have always found her to be bright, fun and contributory. She has some wonderful insights about self organization, and she works very hard. As a good academic, she certainly does her detail, sometimes a bit more than I feel I want or need, but good for all of that. However, when it comes to enhancing our function in a self organizing world (or Open Space), I suspect she is working a bit too hard. She and her fellows have developed a whole series of approaches and exercises which enable you to do what I find pretty much happens all by itself. But that is probably just me. And for those of you who want to know more about Glenda, I suggest her latest book --<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Adaptive-Action-Leveraging-Uncertainty-Organization-ebook/dp/B00C3WSKV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396971594&sr=1-1&keywords=glenda+eoyang">http://www.amazon.com/Adaptive-Action-Leveraging-Uncertainty-Organization-ebook/dp/B00C3WSKV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1396971594&sr=1-1&keywords=glenda+eoyang</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And now back to containers and boundaries. The issue (our differences) may be purely semantic – but maybe not. As I think back over lots of Open Spaces, and more particularly what I might call the natural appearance of Open Space (Tahrir Square, for example, or the coffee pot) I fully agree that from the outside they all look like bounded/contained experiences. There seems to be an inside and an outside, a container of some sort. But the question for me: – Is that boundary/container externally imposed, and therefore prior to the process of self organization as a precondition – or is the boundary/container a PRODUCT of the process of self organization? As I read Glenda, she would opt for the former: Container as precondition. I find myself coming down on the other side – The apparent container is actually a product of the process. In a word, what starts out unbounded and disassociated (random people and things) coalesces into a meaningful form, or better, organism/organization – which is what self organization is all about, I think. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I grant you that in an Open Space the “room” would seem to be a pre-existing container, but I don’t see it as essential. In fact I’ve “done” a number of Open Space in the middle of an open field. And when you look at natural occurrences, I think it becomes quite clear that pre-existing boundaries/containers don’t really have much to do with what is happening. They may be convenient or inconvenient, but not determinative. The other things you mention (time slots, bulletin board, etc.) don’t fit for me either. Helpful to be sure, but you can get along quite well without any of it, or so I’ve found.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So what is going on? My sense is that self organization with humans (in Open Space and/or everyday) commences when some sort of a vector of caring shows up which draws people together. Someone, somewhere, sometime says, or just thinks, “I care about... Not just a little bit, but I really care and am prepared to take responsibility for what I care about. ” If this care/concern is shared – and others care for the same thing, but maybe in very different ways... the ball starts rolling.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>In Open Space, this caring is made concrete and specific with the invitation. Of course, when the invite is sent out nobody has a clue whether anybody will come... but if they care, they will come, and given a date/place, electronic or physical they will all show up in one time/space. The vector of caring will draw them in...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>If the story I am telling roughly reflects the facts on the ground, I think there are some interesting and serious implications for the role of the facilitator and the function of the container. EVERYTHING is well on the way before there is a facilitator in sight or container at hand. In a word, the system, from the first moment of its emergence does it all by itself. We are bystanders, midwives at best. And the container (whatever that might be) is the product of the process ... and not the precondition or cause.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harrison<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Camden, Maine 04843<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(summer) 207-763-3261<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="www.openspaceworld.com%20"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>www.openspaceworld.com</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="www.ho-image.com%20"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:blue'>www.ho-image.com</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> (Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:</span><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:blue'>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a> [<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Osborne<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 07, 2014 12:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> World wide Open Space Technology email list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] Open Space and Boundaries<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Harrison, <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I think this is one of the few times I have a different point of view that you. I believe OS's have natural containers built in. I also believe you need a container for open space to be effective. I think the difference stems from having a different definition or viewpoint on what a container is and can be. My view has been heavily influenced by Glenda Eoyang's theory and work in this area. For something new to emerge from self organization something has to hold our bind the diverse agents together for them to have exchanges across their differences. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- The room or space the OS is being held in is a container. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- A concept or idea that people care about brings the people together.....it binds or contains them creating the space to have the conversations to emerge. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>- The bulletin board is a container.....scheduling a specific conversation at a specific place and time. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In my experience there are always multiple containers that are massively intertwined. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>My thoughts along the way. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>David <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Michael Wood <<a href="mailto:michael.wood@uwa.edu.au" target="_blank">michael.wood@uwa.edu.au</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks, Harrison, for your response to my question on 'boundaries', particularly your paraphrasing of my question - which was spot on. One thing I've taken from this brief conversation is that although considering the boundaries can be useful, we also need to accept that boundaries are never entirely clear, always moving on a spectrum from clear to uncertain/murky and if we, as a sponsor or facilitator, get overly bound up with boundaries then we might have moved, once again, into being too controlling. <br><br>Michael Wood <br>Perth, Western Australia <br><br><br>---------------------------------------------------------------------- <br><br>Message: 1 <br>Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:01:40 -0400 <br>From: "Harrison Owen" < <a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net">hhowen@verizon.net</a>> <br>To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" <br> < <a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> <br>Subject: Re: [OSList] Open Space and boundaries <br>Message-ID: <000301cf4f56$00776480$01662d80$@net> <br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII <br><br>It has been common for us to speak of Containers and Boundaries as somehow essential to Open Space. I can't quite find the place, but I do remember saying something like that myself, as in, "The role of the facilitator is to create the container..." It certainly made sense at the time, but I always felt a little uncomfortable with the image. Too mechanical, coercive... too something. And Michael has brought the subject up again. "So...here we have a situation where the 'boundaries' are actually in a state of complex flux and uncertainty. The financial 'givens' are ambiguous; there is no 'locum' <br>pastor in place because of legal uncertainties with the existing pastor...etc." You might call it "messy boundaries" -- and he raises the question whether one should press ahead with Open Space, or wait until the "mess" is settled down. On the one hand, Michael "hunches" that one should press on -- Open Space. But his hesitation comes, I suspect, from the prior notion that fixed boundaries/containers are necessary for an effective Open Space. What to do? <br><br>Some thoughts (new ones for me): Containers are great for cooking soup, but are unneeded and maybe even problematical in Open Space. It is all about holding things together. In Open Space groups of people come together to deal with their issues. At the very least that would mean gathering in some common time/space, be that physical or electronic. It would seem that this co-location could be facilitated were some suitable "container" provided, presumably by the sponsor/facilitator. This certainly makes sense, and as a rough way of speaking, it seems to describe what is going on. But as I think about it, I think we may be missing a most important point. Coming together in Open Space happens because people care to come. And they continue their connection as long as they care to do so. (Law of two feet) <br><br>>From the "outside" it might look as if they were held in place by a <br>container, but that is illusory. The actual dynamics are centripetal, the force is mutual attraction... people are "there" because they care to be there and not because they are contained by some external structure. In a word, we as facilitators really don't do a thing, and creating a container is the least of what we DON'T do. The people, from the beginning, do it all. <br><br><br>Of course, there are situations where groups come together under orders, mandates, whatever. And they are definitely "contained." It is also true that the tighter that container, the less likely self organization will take place. If true, providing a container is not only unnecessary but also destructive. In the name of Opening space, we effectively close it. Or so I suspect it might be. Just thinking... <br><br>Anyhow Michael, should my mental peregrinations lead anywhere useful, it would seem that your "hunch" was spot on. Forget the boundaries/container. <br>Just invite the space to open. <br><br>Harrison <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Harrison Owen <br>7808 River Falls Dr. <br>Potomac, MD 20854 <br>USA <br><br>189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer) <br>Camden, Maine 04843 <br><br>Phone 301-365-2093 <br>(summer) 207-763-3261 <br><br><a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a> <br><a href="http://www.ho-image.com" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website) <br>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to: <a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a> <br><br>-----Original Message----- <br>From: <a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a> <br>[mailto: <a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] On Behalf Of Michael Wood <br>Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 9:59 PM <br>To: ' <a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>' <br>Subject: [OSList] Open Space and boundaries <br><br>A Case Study.... <br>One of the principles that I have generally worked with in Open Space is helping the client get clear on the 'boundaries' of the space that's being opened. For example, helping people who come into the space to know 'what up for grabs here and what isn't? What decisions have already been made?' <br><br>So picture this (purely hypothetical of course)....a church community in which the pastor has (in many peoples' opinion) run off the rails and the main church body is in the process of trying to dismiss him; the church is in compete disarray and completely conflict ridden, many people have left; the pastor who holds all the keys, banking passwords; church telephone connections etc etc, has taken legal advice and had hunkered down in the church owned house where he continues to hold the reigns of power (via some of his 'allies' in the church) despite not formally being the Pastor of the church anymore.... <br><br>So...here we have a situation where the 'boundaries' are actually in a state of complex flux and uncertainty. The financial 'givens' are ambiguous; there is no 'locum' pastor in place because of legal uncertainties with the existing pastor...etc etc. <br><br>So in terms of 'Opening Space', do we wait a bit longer until some of the legal boundaries are clarified, OR open space right away in the midst of the mess....my hunch is the latter, but any thoughts from anyone? <br><br>Cheers <br>Michael <br>_______________________________________________ <br>OSList mailing list <br>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a> <br>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: <br><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a> <br><br><br><br>------------------------------ <br><br>_______________________________________________ <br>OSList mailing list <br>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a> <br>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: <br><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a> <br><br><br>End of OSList Digest, Vol 38, Issue 3 <br>************************************* <br>_______________________________________________ <br>OSList mailing list <br>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a> <br>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: <br><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p>--<o:p></o:p></p><p>David Osborne<o:p></o:p></p><p><img border=0 width=150 height=58 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CF533D.D1E6AD60" alt="http://www.change-fusion.com/ChangeFusionLogo.jpg"><o:p></o:p></p><p><a href="http://www.change-fusion.com">www.change-fusion.com</a> | <a href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com">dosborne@change-fusion.com</a> | 703.939.1777<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>