<div dir="ltr"><div>Thank you Peggy and David<br><br></div>I' will think over all your answers<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 6:03 AM, Peggy Holman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com" target="_blank">peggy@peggyholman.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">I have a different response to Christine’s question:<div><blockquote type="cite"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> if we want to keep the system healthy and alive, what should we do ?”</span></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I’d say take responsibility for what you love.</div><div><br></div><div>A system exists through the interactions among its diverse agents. Some of those agents, whether in an organism or in an organization, attend to the system’s health. Think of the role of kidneys for flushing out toxins. In human systems, people, rather than cells, organize stuff. You could argue that hierarchies are an overcompensation of a system that ultimately leaves unflushed toxicity in its wake, sometimes killing off the organization. Or at least making it function in less optimal ways. </div>
<div><br></div><div>As David said, as we come to understand principles of self-organizing, we’re better equipped to do stuff that is congruent with natural patterns. I think current trends towards network forms of organizing are a promising experiment in a system’s agents working with those natural principles. Sort of a permaculture for human systems.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Christine, to your questions about size:</div><div class="im"><div><blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;font-size:12pt">But then how do you do with very large systems ? Or does it mean that any system that is too large to come regularly together as a whole is oversized ? should split into several smaller systems to keep its good health</span></blockquote>
</div><div><br></div></div><div>Important questions. I suspect as we learn more about how networks function, the answers to your questions will get clearer. I can only speculate. I can imagine people meeting on behalf of the whole in transparent ways that are open to anyone who cares to show up. And if overwhelming numbers want to be there, perhaps intersecting circles come into play. Layers of wholeness exist in systems. So those who feel called to convene on behalf of the whole take responsibility for it. And connect with others who share in that sort of stewarding function. Holding it all lightly and not working too hard, of course. :-) </div>
</div><div><br></div><div>Just mulling…</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Peggy</div><div><br></div><br><br><div>
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<div>_________________________________</div><div>Peggy Holman</div><div><a href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com" target="_blank">peggy@peggyholman.com</a></div><div>Twitter: @peggyholman</div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12px;font-family:Helvetica"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
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<br><div><div class="im"><div>On Jan 9, 2014, at 5:00 PM, David Osborne <<a href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com" target="_blank">dosborne@change-fusion.com</a>> wrote:</div><br></div><blockquote type="cite">
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I think the tendency toward coherence or fragmentation is the organizing principle.
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I see supporting coherence as a part of the process, not an organizing principle in itself. It's a choice, similar to the other individual and group choices that are a part of self-organization.
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Most of us here on the list serve choose to facilitate / host open space sessions. I'd suggest this choice usually leads to building coherence. So it is with other coherence supporting choices.The system may or may not do it itself.
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Another way I would frame it is that organizations I frequently work in are stuck in patterns that they are dissatisfied or frustrated with. Think poor business results, customer satisfaction, work environment, employee engagement / satisfaction etc. Control is the great inhibitor of self-organization and often prevents new coherent patterns being able to emerge. I find that I can often guide or make suggestions that enable these groups to tap into the power of organization to create new self-reinforcng patterns that they prefer. And my involvement and the choice to be open to my suggestions are all choices that are part of the self-organization. I'm suggesting that we / they that support coherence are also part of the self-organizing, not separate from it.
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I don't mean to be cryptic in my above comments. I find myself continuing to build my own (and hopefully shared) language that describes self-organization. I loved the statement earlier in this exchange that compared self-organization to gravity. I do believe they are both laws that operate invisibly all the time. The point made was that understanding gravity is key to being able to fly to the moon. I think similarly the more we understand and can share the principles of self-organization, we can help humanity fly versus staying stuck in conflict and competition.Thus my continual search to find better ways of sharing and communicating.
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I'm really enjoying tracking and participating in this dialogue and thanks to all that are contributing and listening/reading.
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David
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On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Christine
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:
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Very interesting, that makes sense to me. Does it mean that supporting coherence of the system as a whole should be an organizing principle ?
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But then Harrison will say I guess that it is not necessary, as self org. will take care of the system itself.
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Then there is something that I don't understand about self-org. : if we want to keep the system healthy and alive, what should we do ?
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I found the questions about how do you keep a system as a coherent whole fascinating.
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Part of the dance is the back and forth between coherence and fragmentation. Chaos offers both opportunity and threat, new life and death. Coherence leads to new life patterns emerging, fragmentation leads towards death and the cycle toward new life continues. In my experience there is lot's that can be done to reinforce, nurture and support coherence. Holding the space is one aspect. Drawing attention and building consensus around what is emerging is another, supporting parts of the system through conflict in a manner that continues to increase the likelihood of coherence is a third. There are many more...and those are some quick thoughts for now. All of this can and is done with in the context of self-organization and someone having the passion and taking the initiative to do it. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:06 PM, christine koehler
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</div>If I simplify what you say (and I apologize for it), I understand that you say that what keep a self-organized system coherent as a whole is coming regularly together as a whole, following our two feet to sessions called around we love, coming back as a whole, dispersing again for the evening. Of course I would tend to agree with that. But then how do you do with very large systems ? Or does it mean that any system that is too large to come regularly together as a whole is oversized ? should split into several smaller systems to keep its good health ?
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