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Hi Michael...<br>
<br>
So interesting this phrase: <br>
<br>
"...Sort of a permaculture for
<br>
human systems."<br>
<br>
Organizational Permaculture is a interesting idea. <br>
<br>
A little while ago, I think in late 2012, I set up a Facebook group
to discuss the application of Permaculture concepts to
organizations...it has over 100 of members now...here is the link:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/147096195442450/">https://www.facebook.com/groups/147096195442450/</a>. OST is a prime
example of an OrgPerma practice. I hope you will consider taking a
look.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
Dan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/10/14 4:03 AM, Michael M Pannwitz
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52CFB756.2070804@gmail.com" type="cite">Here
is a link to a long list of measures the European Union is
employing
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ec.europa.eu/education/programmes/llp/guide/glossary_en.html">http://ec.europa.eu/education/programmes/llp/guide/glossary_en.html</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
mmp
<br>
<br>
On 10.01.2014 08:55, christine koehler wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Thank you Peggy and David
<br>
<br>
I' will think over all your answers
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 6:03 AM, Peggy Holman
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com">peggy@peggyholman.com</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com"><mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com></a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
I have a different response to Christine’s question:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> if we want to keep the system
healthy and alive, what should we
<br>
do ?”
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I’d say take responsibility for what you love.
<br>
<br>
A system exists through the interactions among its diverse
agents.
<br>
Some of those agents, whether in an organism or in an
organization,
<br>
attend to the system’s health. Think of the role of kidneys
for
<br>
flushing out toxins. In human systems, people, rather than
cells,
<br>
organize stuff. You could argue that hierarchies are an
<br>
overcompensation of a system that ultimately leaves
unflushed
<br>
toxicity in its wake, sometimes killing off the
organization. Or at
<br>
least making it function in less optimal ways.
<br>
<br>
As David said, as we come to understand principles of
<br>
self-organizing, we’re better equipped to do stuff that is
congruent
<br>
with natural patterns. I think current trends towards
network forms
<br>
of organizing are a promising experiment in a system’s
agents
<br>
working with those natural principles. Sort of a
permaculture for
<br>
human systems.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Christine, to your questions about size:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> But then how do you do with very
large systems ? Or does it mean
<br>
that any system that is too large to come regularly
together as a
<br>
whole is oversized ? should split into several smaller
systems to
<br>
keep its good health
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Important questions. I suspect as we learn more about how
networks
<br>
function, the answers to your questions will get clearer. I
can only
<br>
speculate. I can imagine people meeting on behalf of the
whole in
<br>
transparent ways that are open to anyone who cares to show
up. And
<br>
if overwhelming numbers want to be there, perhaps
intersecting
<br>
circles come into play. Layers of wholeness exist in
systems. So
<br>
those who feel called to convene on behalf of the whole take
<br>
responsibility for it. And connect with others who share in
that
<br>
sort of stewarding function. Holding it all lightly and not
working
<br>
too hard, of course. :-)
<br>
<br>
Just mulling…
<br>
<br>
<br>
Peggy
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_________________________________
<br>
Peggy Holman
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com">peggy@peggyholman.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com"><mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com></a>
<br>
Twitter: @peggyholman
<br>
<br>
15347 SE 49th Place
<br>
Bellevue, WA 98006
<br>
425-746-6274
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.peggyholman.com">www.peggyholman.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.peggyholman.com"><http://www.peggyholman.com></a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.org">www.journalismthatmatters.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.org"><http://www.journalismthatmatters.org></a>
<br>
<br>
*Enjoy the award winning *Engaging Emergence: Turning
Upheaval into
<br>
Opportunity
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/"><http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/></a>
<br>
Check out my series on what's emerging in the news &
information
<br>
ecosystem
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system"><http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system></a><br>
<br>
"An angel told me that the only way to step into the fire
and not
<br>
get burnt, is to become
<br>
the fire".
<br>
-- Drew Dellinger
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jan 9, 2014, at 5:00 PM, David Osborne
<br>
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com">dosborne@change-fusion.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com"><mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com></a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> Christine,
<br>
<br>
I think the tendency toward coherence or fragmentation is
the
<br>
organizing principle.
<br>
<br>
I see supporting coherence as a part of the process, not
an
<br>
organizing principle in itself. It's a choice, similar to
the
<br>
other individual and group choices that are a part of
<br>
self-organization.
<br>
<br>
Most of us here on the list serve choose to facilitate /
host open
<br>
space sessions. I'd suggest this choice usually leads to
building
<br>
coherence. So it is with other coherence supporting
choices.The
<br>
system may or may not do it itself.
<br>
<br>
Another way I would frame it is that organizations I
frequently
<br>
work in are stuck in patterns that they are dissatisfied
or
<br>
frustrated with. Think poor business results, customer
<br>
satisfaction, work environment, employee engagement /
satisfaction
<br>
etc. Control is the great inhibitor of self-organization
and often
<br>
prevents new coherent patterns being able to emerge. I
find that
<br>
I can often guide or make suggestions that enable these
groups to
<br>
tap into the power of organization to create new
self-reinforcng
<br>
patterns that they prefer. And my involvement and the
choice to be
<br>
open to my suggestions are all choices that are part of
the
<br>
self-organization. I'm suggesting that we / they that
support
<br>
coherence are also part of the self-organizing, not
separate from it.
<br>
<br>
I don't mean to be cryptic in my above comments. I find
myself
<br>
continuing to build my own (and hopefully shared) language
that
<br>
describes self-organization. I loved the statement earlier
in this
<br>
exchange that compared self-organization to gravity. I do
believe
<br>
they are both laws that operate invisibly all the time.
The point
<br>
made was that understanding gravity is key to being able
to fly to
<br>
the moon. I think similarly the more we understand and can
share
<br>
the principles of self-organization, we can help humanity
fly
<br>
versus staying stuck in conflict and competition.Thus my
continual
<br>
search to find better ways of sharing and communicating.
<br>
<br>
I'm really enjoying tracking and participating in this
dialogue
<br>
and thanks to all that are contributing and
listening/reading.
<br>
<br>
David
<br>
703-939-1777
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com">dosborne@change-fusion.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com"><mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com></a>
<br>
<image.png>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Christine
<br>
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com">chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com"><mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com></a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
Hi David
<br>
<br>
Very interesting, that makes sense to me. Does it mean
that
<br>
supporting coherence of the system as a whole should
be an
<br>
organizing principle ?
<br>
But then Harrison will say I guess that it is not
necessary,
<br>
as self org. will take care of the system itself.
<br>
Then there is something that I don't understand about
<br>
self-org. : if we want to keep the system healthy and
alive,
<br>
what should we do ?
<br>
<br>
Christine Koehler
<br>
06 13 28 71 38 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="tel:06%2013%2028%2071%2038"><tel:06%2013%2028%2071%2038></a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Le 9 janv. 2014 à 22:20, David Osborne <
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com">dosborne@change-fusion.com</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com"><mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com></a>> a écrit
:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> I found the questions about
how do you keep a system as a
<br>
coherent whole fascinating.
<br>
<br>
Part of the dance is the back and forth between
coherence and
<br>
fragmentation. Chaos offers both opportunity and
threat, new
<br>
life and death. Coherence leads to new life patterns
<br>
emerging, fragmentation leads towards death and the
cycle
<br>
toward new life continues. In my experience there is
lot's
<br>
that can be done to reinforce, nurture and support
coherence.
<br>
Holding the space is one aspect. Drawing attention
and
<br>
building consensus around what is emerging is
another,
<br>
supporting parts of the system through conflict in a
manner
<br>
that continues to increase the likelihood of
coherence is a
<br>
third. There are many more...and those are some
quick
<br>
thoughts for now. All of this can and is done with
in the
<br>
context of self-organization and someone having the
passion
<br>
and taking the initiative to do it. The two are not
mutually
<br>
exclusive.
<br>
<br>
Cheers to all.
<br>
<br>
David
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:06 PM, christine koehler
<br>
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com">chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com"><mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com></a>>
wrote:
<br>
<br>
Peggy
<br>
<br>
If I simplify what you say (and I apologize for
it), I
<br>
understand that you say that what keep a
self-organized
<br>
system coherent as a whole is coming regularly
together
<br>
as a whole, following our two feet to sessions
called
<br>
around we love, coming back as a whole,
dispersing again
<br>
for the evening. Of course I would tend to agree
with
<br>
that. But then how do you do with very large
systems ? Or
<br>
does it mean that any system that is too large
to come
<br>
regularly together as a whole is oversized ?
should split
<br>
into several smaller systems to keep its good
health ?
<br>
<br>
and what about decision making ?
<br>
<br>
Christine
<br>
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