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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I so love when other systems of
thinking find synergy with Open Space. Organizational Permaculture
is very intriguing. We had a permaculture guru at the last
Missoula Montana open space conference, Paul Wheaton, who runs the
largest permaculture forum, permies.com. It was a powerfully
synergetic effect, especially as it seems quite evident at least
from my own corner of the universe that permaculture is a "save
the world" way of thinking and practice. That's the way Paul
Wheaton holds it. And from the level of productivity that
permaculture provides in a sustainable healthy humane way - I
can't help but sense there is value in applying this way of
thinking organizationally.<br>
<br>
The person Paul Wheaton seems to most consistently point at as the
greatest genius in Permaculture, Sepp Holzer, is from Austria.
Perhaps not surprising that some one from that region would have
introduced the word in to the conversation (thank you Michael!)<br>
<br>
Apparently Sepp has managed to get the authorities there quite
upset with him, so he can't sell directly the abundant produce he
has managed to cultivate - but people come from far away to visit
him and just happen to "steal" veggies while they're there. Paul
says he makes "damn good money" on permies.com - and from many
diverse income streams. He mentioned at our conference a 7 figure
amount, but that is likely guessing. But he's had to face heavy
fines and possible imprisonment to get there.<br>
<br>
Dan, I've not studied permaculture or your facebook group in as
much detail as I'd like - but I'm especially intrigued about any
insights you might have about the focus on obtaining a yield -
especially for open space practitioners. What are your thoughts?<br>
<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
On 1/10/14 6:49 AM, Daniel Mezick wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52CFFA65.3020602@newtechusa.net" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hi Michael...<br>
<br>
So interesting this phrase: <br>
<br>
"...Sort of a permaculture for <br>
human systems."<br>
<br>
Organizational Permaculture is a interesting idea. <br>
<br>
A little while ago, I think in late 2012, I set up a Facebook
group to discuss the application of Permaculture concepts to
organizations...it has over 100 of members now...here is the link:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/147096195442450/">https://www.facebook.com/groups/147096195442450/</a>.
OST is a prime example of an OrgPerma practice. I hope you will
consider taking a look.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
Dan<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/10/14 4:03 AM, Michael M
Pannwitz wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52CFB756.2070804@gmail.com" type="cite">Here
is a link to a long list of measures the European Union is
employing <br>
<blockquote type="cite"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://ec.europa.eu/education/programmes/llp/guide/glossary_en.html">http://ec.europa.eu/education/programmes/llp/guide/glossary_en.html</a>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
mmp <br>
<br>
On 10.01.2014 08:55, christine koehler wrote: <br>
<blockquote type="cite">Thank you Peggy and David <br>
<br>
I' will think over all your answers <br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 6:03 AM, Peggy Holman <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com">peggy@peggyholman.com</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com"><mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com></a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
I have a different response to Christine’s question: <br>
<blockquote type="cite"> if we want to keep the system
healthy and alive, what should we <br>
do ?” <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I’d say take responsibility for what you love. <br>
<br>
A system exists through the interactions among its diverse
agents. <br>
Some of those agents, whether in an organism or in an
organization, <br>
attend to the system’s health. Think of the role of
kidneys for <br>
flushing out toxins. In human systems, people, rather than
cells, <br>
organize stuff. You could argue that hierarchies are an <br>
overcompensation of a system that ultimately leaves
unflushed <br>
toxicity in its wake, sometimes killing off the
organization. Or at <br>
least making it function in less optimal ways. <br>
<br>
As David said, as we come to understand principles of <br>
self-organizing, we’re better equipped to do stuff that is
congruent <br>
with natural patterns. I think current trends towards
network forms <br>
of organizing are a promising experiment in a system’s
agents <br>
working with those natural principles. Sort of a
permaculture for <br>
human systems. <br>
<br>
<br>
Christine, to your questions about size: <br>
<blockquote type="cite"> But then how do you do with very
large systems ? Or does it mean <br>
that any system that is too large to come regularly
together as a <br>
whole is oversized ? should split into several smaller
systems to <br>
keep its good health <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Important questions. I suspect as we learn more about how
networks <br>
function, the answers to your questions will get clearer.
I can only <br>
speculate. I can imagine people meeting on behalf of the
whole in <br>
transparent ways that are open to anyone who cares to show
up. And <br>
if overwhelming numbers want to be there, perhaps
intersecting <br>
circles come into play. Layers of wholeness exist in
systems. So <br>
those who feel called to convene on behalf of the whole
take <br>
responsibility for it. And connect with others who share
in that <br>
sort of stewarding function. Holding it all lightly and
not working <br>
too hard, of course. :-) <br>
<br>
Just mulling… <br>
<br>
<br>
Peggy <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_________________________________ <br>
Peggy Holman <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com">peggy@peggyholman.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com"><mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com></a>
<br>
Twitter: @peggyholman <br>
<br>
15347 SE 49th Place <br>
Bellevue, WA 98006 <br>
425-746-6274 <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.peggyholman.com">www.peggyholman.com</a> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://www.peggyholman.com"><http://www.peggyholman.com></a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.org">www.journalismthatmatters.org</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.org"><http://www.journalismthatmatters.org></a>
<br>
<br>
*Enjoy the award winning *Engaging Emergence: Turning
Upheaval into <br>
Opportunity <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/"><http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/></a>
<br>
Check out my series on what's emerging in the news &
information <br>
ecosystem <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system"><http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system></a><br>
<br>
"An angel told me that the only way to step into the fire
and not <br>
get burnt, is to become <br>
the fire". <br>
-- Drew Dellinger <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Jan 9, 2014, at 5:00 PM, David Osborne <br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com">dosborne@change-fusion.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com"><mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com></a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> Christine, <br>
<br>
I think the tendency toward coherence or fragmentation
is the <br>
organizing principle. <br>
<br>
I see supporting coherence as a part of the process, not
an <br>
organizing principle in itself. It's a choice, similar
to the <br>
other individual and group choices that are a part of <br>
self-organization. <br>
<br>
Most of us here on the list serve choose to facilitate /
host open <br>
space sessions. I'd suggest this choice usually leads to
building <br>
coherence. So it is with other coherence supporting
choices.The <br>
system may or may not do it itself. <br>
<br>
Another way I would frame it is that organizations I
frequently <br>
work in are stuck in patterns that they are dissatisfied
or <br>
frustrated with. Think poor business results, customer <br>
satisfaction, work environment, employee engagement /
satisfaction <br>
etc. Control is the great inhibitor of self-organization
and often <br>
prevents new coherent patterns being able to emerge. I
find that <br>
I can often guide or make suggestions that enable these
groups to <br>
tap into the power of organization to create new
self-reinforcng <br>
patterns that they prefer. And my involvement and the
choice to be <br>
open to my suggestions are all choices that are part of
the <br>
self-organization. I'm suggesting that we / they that
support <br>
coherence are also part of the self-organizing, not
separate from it. <br>
<br>
I don't mean to be cryptic in my above comments. I find
myself <br>
continuing to build my own (and hopefully shared)
language that <br>
describes self-organization. I loved the statement
earlier in this <br>
exchange that compared self-organization to gravity. I
do believe <br>
they are both laws that operate invisibly all the time.
The point <br>
made was that understanding gravity is key to being able
to fly to <br>
the moon. I think similarly the more we understand and
can share <br>
the principles of self-organization, we can help
humanity fly <br>
versus staying stuck in conflict and competition.Thus my
continual <br>
search to find better ways of sharing and communicating.
<br>
<br>
I'm really enjoying tracking and participating in this
dialogue <br>
and thanks to all that are contributing and
listening/reading. <br>
<br>
David <br>
703-939-1777 <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com">dosborne@change-fusion.com</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com"><mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com></a>
<br>
<image.png> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Christine <br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com">chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com"><mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com></a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
Hi David <br>
<br>
Very interesting, that makes sense to me. Does it
mean that <br>
supporting coherence of the system as a whole should
be an <br>
organizing principle ? <br>
But then Harrison will say I guess that it is not
necessary, <br>
as self org. will take care of the system itself. <br>
Then there is something that I don't understand
about <br>
self-org. : if we want to keep the system healthy
and alive, <br>
what should we do ? <br>
<br>
Christine Koehler <br>
06 13 28 71 38 <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="tel:06%2013%2028%2071%2038"><tel:06%2013%2028%2071%2038></a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Le 9 janv. 2014 à 22:20, David Osborne < <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com">dosborne@change-fusion.com</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com"><mailto:dosborne@change-fusion.com></a>>
a écrit : <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> I found the questions about
how do you keep a system as a <br>
coherent whole fascinating. <br>
<br>
Part of the dance is the back and forth between
coherence and <br>
fragmentation. Chaos offers both opportunity and
threat, new <br>
life and death. Coherence leads to new life
patterns <br>
emerging, fragmentation leads towards death and
the cycle <br>
toward new life continues. In my experience there
is lot's <br>
that can be done to reinforce, nurture and support
coherence. <br>
Holding the space is one aspect. Drawing attention
and <br>
building consensus around what is emerging is
another, <br>
supporting parts of the system through conflict in
a manner <br>
that continues to increase the likelihood of
coherence is a <br>
third. There are many more...and those are some
quick <br>
thoughts for now. All of this can and is done with
in the <br>
context of self-organization and someone having
the passion <br>
and taking the initiative to do it. The two are
not mutually <br>
exclusive. <br>
<br>
Cheers to all. <br>
<br>
David <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:06 PM, christine koehler
<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com">chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com</a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com"><mailto:chris.alice.koehler@gmail.com></a>>
wrote: <br>
<br>
Peggy <br>
<br>
If I simplify what you say (and I apologize
for it), I <br>
understand that you say that what keep a
self-organized <br>
system coherent as a whole is coming regularly
together <br>
as a whole, following our two feet to sessions
called <br>
around we love, coming back as a whole,
dispersing again <br>
for the evening. Of course I would tend to
agree with <br>
that. But then how do you do with very large
systems ? Or <br>
does it mean that any system that is too large
to come <br>
regularly together as a whole is oversized ?
should split <br>
into several smaller systems to keep its good
health ? <br>
<br>
and what about decision making ? <br>
<br>
Christine <br>
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