<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Such a rich topic! Thanks to <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Marie
Ann Östlund for opening this topic.</span><br>
<br>
I am compelled to add the following words (verbatim) from RIGHTS OF
MAN, by Thomas Paine. The book is quite an interesting read for
folks like us. It tends to confirm and join with all of Harrison's
key points. <br>
<br>
My favorite quote in the book: <br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
"...society performs for itself almost everything that is ascribed
to government."<br>
<br>
When he says [society] in the text, he means groups to people who
are self-organizing, according to natural propensity.<br>
<br>
The whole book is here, for free:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2H_4_0007">http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2H_4_0007</a><br>
<br>
Quoting below, from this specific section:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2HCH0001">http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2HCH0001</a><br>
<br>
Will you pardon my forwardness? I've taken the liberty of bolding a
few words for emphasis:<br>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<p> "So far is it from being true, as has been <b>pretended</b>,
that the abolition of any formal government is the dissolution of
society, that it acts by a contrary impulse, and brings the latter
the closer together. All that part of its organisation which it
had committed to its government, devolves again upon itself, and
acts through its medium. When men, as well from natural instinct
as from reciprocal benefits, have habituated themselves to social
and civilised life, <b>there is always enough of its principles
in practice to carry them</b> through any changes they may find
necessary or convenient to make in their government. In short, <b>man
is so naturally a creature of society</b> that it is almost
impossible to put him out of it. </p>
<b> </b>
<p><b> "Formal government makes but a small part of civilised life</b>;
and when even the best that human wisdom can devise is
established, it is a thing more in name and idea than in fact. It
is to the great and fundamental principles of society and
civilisation—to the common usage universally consented to, and
mutually and reciprocally maintained—to the unceasing circulation
of interest, which, passing through its million channels,
invigorates the whole mass of civilised man—it is to these things,
infinitely more than to anything which even the best instituted
government can perform, that the safety and prosperity of the
individual and of the whole depends. </p>
<p><b> "The more perfect civilisation is, the less occasion has it
for government</b>, because the more does it regulate its own
affairs, <b>and govern itself</b>; but so contrary is the
practice of old governments to the reason of the case, that the
expenses of them increase in the proportion they ought to
diminish. It is but few general laws that civilised life requires,
and those of such common usefulness, that whether they are
enforced by the forms of government or not, the effect will be
nearly the same.<b> If we consider what the principles are</b>
that first condense men into society, and what are the motives
that regulate their mutual intercourse afterwards, we shall find,
by the time we arrive at what is called government, that <b>nearly
the whole of the business is performed by the natural operation
of the parts upon each other. </b></p>
<p> "Man, with respect to all those matters, is more a creature of
consistency than he is aware, or than governments would wish him
to believe. <b>All the great laws of society are laws of nature.</b>
Those of trade and commerce, whether with respect to the
intercourse of individuals or of nations, are laws of mutual and
reciprocal interest. They are followed and obeyed, because it is
the interest of the parties so to do, and <b>not on account of
any formal laws their governments may impose or interpose. </b></p>
<br>
***<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/30/13 11:10 AM, Harrison Owen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:003001cf0579$9e9b3ff0$dbd1bfd0$@net"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Marie
– I think you have it just right. But maybe you are making
things a little too complicated, and working a bit too hard.
In my simple mind, things look like this. First: All systems
are self organizing, even those we think we organize.
Second: Organizing a self organizing system is not only an
oxymoron, but stupid – especially when the system can do a
better job all by itself. Third: Whenever we try to organize
a self-organizing system, we inevitably get it wrong. Our
efforts are “clunky.” Even though it may look great on
paper, our efforts are never subtle or flexible (agile)
enough. Fourth: Open Space is simply an invitation to self
organize. In other words it is simply an invitation to be
and do what we are. The fact that it works as it does has
nothing to do with our knowing any philosophy, principles,
practices... It works as it has for 13.7 billion years, long
before we arrived on the scene, all without our help and
assistance. Fifth: the real value of OST is as a training
program enabling us to experience consciously and
intentionally what all too often passes by unnoticed – Life.
It is also a marvelous laboratory in which we can learn more
about our natural state. And oh yes – all the principles,
philosophies, practices, etc are fun, interesting, and
useful to the extent that they help us to understand with
greater clarity what is really going on. But at the end of
the day they really don’t change a thing. I think.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ho
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Harrison
Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">7808
River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Potomac,
MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">USA<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">189
Beaucaire Ave. (summer)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Camden,
Maine 04843<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Phone
301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(summer)
207-763-3261<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.openspaceworld.com%20">www.openspaceworld.com</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="www.ho-image.com%20">www.ho-image.com</a>
(Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D">To
subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
archives of OSLIST Go to:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Marie Ann Östlund<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 28, 2013 5:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> World wide Open Space Technology email list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [OSList] self-organization<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I hope you've had a wonderfully emergent
holiday and I also take the opportunity to wish you all a
beautiful year.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
I've been thinking about self-organization for some time
now - or holding the question of its meaning - as I
haven't understood the concept and the way we've talked
about it. But this autumn the penny dropped (!) for me (to
some extent) and I could also understand why I make the
connections I do with OST and human nature, and, maybe,
why others don't make that same connection.<br>
<br>
I want to share my little penny with you and see how you
understand this, and would appreciate your input and some
push-back. :) Warning - it's a bit long.<br>
<br>
Harrison, it was your response to Hege's thread earlier
that exemplified some of the things I struggle to
understand, so you gave me the perfect cue to put my
thoughts together (Thank you!):<br>
<br>
"And there is an alternative. Just recognize (in your own
mind) that these folks (whoever they are...) are already
“in” Open Space. They are just doing it badly. Your
“offer” is simply to help them to do what they are already
doing – but now with some understanding, expertise, and
style. Short take: you can help them to remember what they
already know, and having remembered, to do everything much
better."<br>
<br>
I take this to mean that everyone is already
self-organizing (are already "in" Open Space), but are
doing it badly.<br>
<br>
If we then look at various types of human organisation,
from larger "organisms" like the financial and political
systems, wars, peace-movements, UN, patriarchy, etc to
smaller units like families, teams, etc - they must be
examples of some form of self-organization. Some are to
our liking, some are not.<br>
<br>
Why do we think that some types of human organization are
successful and some not, if we're all self-organizing?
What is the self-organization done "badly", and the one
done "well"? Why does OST <i>work</i>, as we sometimes
put it?<br>
<br>
The understanding I've come to is that one of the main
differences lies in the organizing principle or philosophy
of the "organism". In simpler or smaller systems the
amount of principles might be fewer than in larger ones
(and thus simpler to manage and define). At the macro
level, countries organize themselves based on certain
principles - like one of the foundational principles of
the US is the freedom to <i>be</i> religious and freedom
<i>from</i> the state (from Britain and its monarchy),
while in France freedom <i>from</i> religion is
foundational and influence what citizens are allowed to
learn and wear in school or say in the public sphere, and
in Sweden the state (or previously the monarchy) have
historically been the guarantor and protector of
individual freedom (against the aristocracy). An even
greater and deeper organizing principle we've adopted in
the western hemisphere is the idea of progress - that our
societies invariably progress through scientific and
technological advances. And yes, all these ideas, although
found articulated by some powerful philosophers, are in a
sense a product of self-organization. However interesting
the ideas, they would go nowhere if people didn't
accept/adopt/spread them or felt they resonated with their
own ideas and experiences. The way ideas evolve and spread
are certainly complex.<br>
<br>
I guess these various ideas and beliefs are interlaced
into the complicated weave we call culture, and influence
how we live and organise our lives together. Each country
have certain "rules" and one may call them organizing
principles. A company can have organizing principle/s -
there are differences between how General Motors and Apple
are organized and what define ways to "get ahead" or
succeed. A family also have organizing principles (who's
the boss, how decisions are made etc).<br>
<br>
What makes OST a good way to self-organize is that it's
organizing principle is to take responsibility for what we
love (the law of two feet/mobility). I heard there was a
discussion in the European Learning Exchange recently
about the rules of OST. OST seem rigid to some extent -
sit in circle, facilitator introduce the principles, law
and market place, off you go, evening and morning updates,
closing circle etc. If it's Open Space, why keep to these
rules as we often come back to doing OST in a certain way.
Why do we (religiously) adhere to a certain format when
doing OST - at least this is how I interpret the query
hearing about it second hand.<br>
<br>
However, if we consider that we all self-organise, and
many times it's done badly, we need to create a space that
is open and that allows self-organisation to happen in the
most optimal way possible. So we create a bubble of Open
Space that is as open space we can make it. The principles
help us free our minds enough to be present with what's
happening (and most importantly - with ourselves) and the
law is the organising principle - follow your heart (and
use your feet to do so). Take responsibility for what you
love.<br>
<br>
What happens when we take responsibility for what we love?
We feel alive, we enjoy contributing to other peoples
queries, we marvel at what is created when we come
together, and how our 'topic' was taken to another level
with other's contributions. We also marvel at what we
create when we come together. We enjoy giving and enjoy
receiving. We love and feel loving. That's not to say that
we don't experience 'bad' feelings in OS or don't
experience frustrations, but (do correct me) that's often
to do with us not following our hearts as fully as we
would like to or we're in the messy chaotic part in our
organizing process.<br>
<br>
So for me then, Open Space says something about me as a
human being. It says something about us all as human
beings. It says that we love contributing our unique
offering to others, to a greater whole than us, and we
thrive when we're connected.<br>
<br>
My thesis then, is that the organizing principle of OS
(take responsibility for what you love) is an organising
principle that is closer to our human nature than many
other organizing-principles. That's why it <i>works</i>.
We are loving beings, not destructive, violent, and
selfish as Hobbes surmised - that idea is btw still one of
the basic organizing principles in international relations
(more or less). One of the reasons some systems work
better is that the organising principles are more fitting
to our needs and natures. And some may have worked for
some time but no longer does, as they have grown too rigid
or not kept up with time/development. They might have
helped us from a worse condition, but not fully hit home.<br>
<br>
To also address the question of rigidity in OST, what we
do as facilitators is to create a particular bubble of OS;
and as our bubble is created within and around other
self-organizing bubbles, we use rituals to communicate our
ethos and to show that this bubble works in a different
way than others. We show physically that we're doing
something else here than in other systems, by sitting in a
circle, going around it, etc. Rituals are powerful. If all
system would use the same organizing principle these
rituals might no longer matter, or they would adopt the
same.<br>
<br>
To summarise: yes, we do self-organise, but we organise
around some principles/ideas/philosophies. OS is a bubble
of self-organisation that works better than most as its
organising principle is closer to human nature. And no, I
can't explain why the connection to human nature isn't
done more often, as I said I might do in the beginning.
Sorry :)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But I think what I'm getting at, taking
help from Harrison's image of dancing with Shiva, the
dance between chaos and order - is that we can also look
at OST from the point/perspective of Krishna's dance with
the soul (rasa-lila - the dance of divine love). Away from
the cosmic perspective is also the personal or individual
view point, of what the dance can be that we create
together in love and in relationship to each other. And
that might tell a different story about who we are. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
I'd appreciate your thoughts, push-back, reflections. This
is what makes sense to me now and I wanted to share it
with you.<br>
<br>
All the best,<br>
<br>
Marie Ann<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Style-Type" content="text/css">
<title></title>
<meta name="Generator" content="Cocoa HTML Writer">
<meta name="CocoaVersion" content="1138">
<style type="text/css">
p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 14.0px Arial}
p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 14.0px Arial; color: #0000ee}
p.p3 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 14.0px Arial; color: #1a37ee}
span.s1 {text-decoration: underline}
span.s2 {color: #000000}
span.s3 {text-decoration: underline ; color: #0000ee}
</style>
<p class="p1">Daniel Mezick, President</p>
<p class="p1">New Technology Solutions Inc.</p>
<p class="p1">(203) 915 7248 (cell)</p>
<p class="p2"><span class="s1"><a
href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/">Bio</a></span><span
class="s2">. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/"><span
class="s1">Blog</span></a>. <a
href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/"><span class="s1">Twitter</span></a>.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
<p class="p3"><span class="s2">Examine my new book:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/"><span
class="s1">The Culture Game </span></a></span><span
class="s1">: Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span
class="s2">.</span></p>
<p class="p1">Explore Agile Team <a
href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/"><span
class="s3">Training</span></a> and <a
href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/"><span
class="s3">Coaching.</span></a></p>
<p class="p1">Explore the <a
href="http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/"><span class="s3">Agile
Boston </span></a>Community.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>