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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Oh Diane - thank you! I had been hoping
you would write something. I'm also very grateful for your
comprehensive history here only some of which I was aware of.<br>
<br>
A deep bow of appreciation for the Agile Open series. I'd love to
go to every one of those because of the fun, engagement, high
level of learning - but mostly from the awesome people I've met
and how it has enriched my lives. You've been one of the greatest
enrichers of my professional life, Diane! I'm quite excited to be
going to Agile Open in Berkeley next week! And the
Portland/Seattle Agile Open Northwest is one of the high points of
my year.<br>
<br>
As Harrison said - please ramble more. I've been intrigued and
intimidated by the depth I've seen in the Human System Dynamics
work and would love especially to hear you speak more about the
intersection of OST and HSD - or maybe more appropos to this
thread how Finite and Infinite Games is a formal basis for HSD -
and that might benefit OST facilitation. <br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
On 10/9/13 3:21 PM, Diana Larsen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:97F83553-ECEB-4393-B6DA-23B3B12ED25B@futureworksconsulting.com"
type="cite">Harold, Michael, Harrison, and all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I've been lurking on the sidelines of this conversation.
Honestly, hoping a bit that it would go away. (Not sure about my
motivations there.) However, the turn the thread has taken
recently prompts me to speak up again. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'd like to remind you about the Agile Open series of
conferences (goes back to Europe in 2004 and still continuing)
and the Agile Open Program supported by the Agile Alliance
(since 2010) and before those the open space formats of
Consultants' Camp (started by Jerry Weinberg decades ago), the
Consultants' Retreats (Norm Kerth begun in 1997), and
Retrospective Faciltators' Gatherings (Norm, Esther Derby, Linda
Rising, and me, 2002), all still continuing and having touched
many people in the Agile community over the years. What is now
the Agile 20xx conferences have had an open space/open jam
component since the beginning. As well as John Engle's,
Harrison's, & Suzanne's involvement with a variety of Agile
conferences. Coming to a Scrum Gathering in Boulder straight
from having attended the US-OS on OS in San Antonio TX in
2005(?), I opened the first open space for Scrum (that I know
of). Michael opened space at the XP/Agile Universe conference
ten years ago and showed everyone there what self-organizing
could look like in the moment. (I was there, thank you
Michael.) </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All of which has made fertile ground for Dan's advocacy to
take hold in the Agile community. We all stand on the shoulders
of giants. Dan may be the most vocal advocate at the moment (and
I applaud his visibility), but I wouldn't say he's the most
potent advocate. Agile and Open Space have a long, rich and
entwined history together. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some of us have been quietly applying Open Space principles
in our Agile adoption work for many years. We haven't codified
it or named it, but it's been a central part of what we do.
Charlie Poole and others have opened space in organizations as a
way of introducing, modeling, and applying Agile and
self-organization. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The theoretical basis of Carse's _Finite and Infinite Games_
underlies much of the thinking in Human Systems Dynamics as
well. The idea that the degree to which a system is open or
closed, multi-dimensional or single dimensional, non-linear or
linear gives us clues about the patterns that may fit the
purpose or not, and whether we'd like to shift those patterns or
not. Alistair Cockburn used Carse's model to think about
competitive and cooperative games, and proposed the idea that
software development would do well to think more in terms of
cooperation among stakeholders. It's one of the reasons I was
drawn into the Agile space. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some in the Agile community have embraced this idea of games
as metaphor, games/play as learning tool, but they often do not
incorporate (are not aware of?) the deeper meanings from Carse
and Cockburn and the complexity sciences. They do it because
it's more fun. And that's okay too. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It may or may not be a metaphor, explanation or tool that
works for the Open Space community. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Gratitude for your patience with my rambling, </div>
<div>Diana</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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class="Apple-interchange-newline">
Diana Larsen</div>
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"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://futureworksconsulting.com">http://futureworksconsulting.com</a></div>
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</div>
<div
style="font-style:
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">Envisioning
a world where
everyone
at every level
of the
organization
can say, "I
love my work;
this is the
best
job EVER!"</div>
<div
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</div>
<div
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">Read the
books: </div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span><i>Agile
Retrospectives: Making
Good Teams Great </i></div>
<div style="word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space; "><i>Liftoff:
Launching Agile Teams
and Projects </i></div>
<div style="word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space; "><i>QuickStart
Guide to Five Rules of
Accelerated Learning <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://leanpub.com/fiverules">https://leanpub.com/fiverules</a></i></div>
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<div>On Oct 9, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Harold Shinsato wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Michael,<br>
<br>
No fun to hear I'm failing - but it hasn't stopped me
before. Try and try again (even if it takes years).<br>
<br>
I'm not saying OST *is* a game. I'm not saying OST is
anything.<br>
<br>
What I see is that there is value in the metaphor of OST
as a game.<br>
<br>
So Dan is already speaking about OST as a game to Agile
circles and making some good cheese with it. And maybe
the Agile community has a bit of a leg up on us here
because Alistair Cockburn used the game metaphor in his
first book in the 1990's about this. And Alistair is one
of the signatories of the Agile Manifesto that started
the whole "Agile" (with capital letter) conversation.
But Alistair wasn't talking specifically about software
as in an obscure coding thing thing that will make
everyone's eyes glaze over. He was speaking about a
different way to look at work and at teams.<br>
<br>
So I've been in the Agile conversation for over a
decade. And it's not always been fun. Much of it has
been butting up against minds that were very shut, and
it's still not an uncommon experience for advocates to
run into a wall. And maybe this might not seem relevant
here, but much of that "Agile" conversation has been
about people. People people people. It's even a frequent
complaint I hear for the techies, because a minority who
show up at conferences are only interested in the coding
aspect. But they're the minority. The first line of the
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://agilemanifesto.org/">Agile Manifesto</a>
- "Individuals and interactions over processes and
tools."<br>
<br>
Yes - I do live in that world of code. But I also live
in this world of Open Space, improving human dynamics in
teams, OD type stuff etc. And often times having a foot
in both worlds causes cognitive dissonance because not
too many are comfortable in this lonely between space.
Finding language to bring together the contasting
perspectives can be difficult.<br>
<br>
But living in both worlds - I see so much in common. I
see so much common ground. I see so many ways that the
Agile crowd can help the OST/OD crowd, and most
certainly visa versa.<br>
<br>
The thing is - the Agile universe is already embracing
Open Space in a huge way. And not always with the direct
help and support and understanding of the folks here.
Which is not always a good thing.<br>
<br>
One last thing - the Agile community is not homogeneous.
There are many innovations that cause controversy and
big huge disruptions. I'm seeing some of Dan's work in
this community as being potentially hugely powerful and
disrupting - and in a large way due to his being the
most potent advocate of Open Space in Agile today. And
this game perspective is part of how he got there.<br>
<br>
I'm not fully there and understanding his metaphor of
OST as a game - and it looks like I'll need to converse
with him outside this forum to fully get it. I guess I
was hoping for a warmer reception from the voices of
authority and seniority on this list. But at least,
having attended WOSonOS in Florida and knowing some of
what is happening in the Open Space world because of
being part of the Open Space Institute/U.S. - I do know
that many of us are catching more of the agile mojo and
that it will continue to mature.<br>
<br>
Well, anyway - not sure I just helped you Michael but
thanks for giving me an excuse to rant. :-)<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/9/13 11:58 AM, Michael Herman wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAD8j=QF_534FHO1e_GuXw+N4GZ6ORmtpSm_fCVDQBW6t+Tu3pA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Not sure you actually accomlished
"Against," <span></span>Harold. I think I just read OST
is life, a finite slice of Life.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And if the conversation happens in a room full of
people who think and talk about games, that's great to
say OST is a game cuz everyone in that room or
community knows what that means. Probably doesn't work
as well on CNN or at an ODN mtg. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I guess it still a bit confusing to me if this
conversation is about how to talk OST in agile
community or how to talk OST in other/larger
communities. Translation is always possible, but the
game lingo doesn't seem native to the folks I'm
usually talking with. Actually, finding some native
understanding of (and native language for) OS seems
like half the game in many instances. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>m</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On Wednesday, October 9, 2013, Harold Shinsato wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Harrison,<br>
<br>
Ok, I'll take your word from previous posts that
I won't be in trouble if I risk going up against
you again - or maybe it's just a hope that this
thread won't be shut down due to
misunderstandings.<br>
<br>
The statement "OST is a game" actually doesn't
work for me so much because it uncomfortably
reduces all the ideas and philosophy (and
practice) of OST into a word that unfortunately
has for many negative connotations. But perhaps
I'll invite thinking about OST *as* a game
instead. Perhaps that can help prevent cognitive
dissonance and allow for this conversation to
continue.<br>
<br>
My understanding of the word game as used by
Daniel Mezick and others comes from game theory
- and could open up many benefits.<br>
<br>
The briefest way I think to hope to keep this
particular door open for those in this community
who might find the word game unpleasant would be
to suggest the book "Finite and Infinite Games:
A Vision of Life as Play and Possibility" by
James P. Carse. Mr. Carse actually is a
professor of history and literature of religion
- and his thinking in that book is very poetic
and beautiful. And it reminds me much of Open
Space thinking - and I won't even attempt to
dive into his thesis any more than to look at
what I think sums up the thinking being the
final sentence in the book. "There is only one
infinite game."<br>
<br>
The bigger game of Open Space is the game of
life - the unending story - the "one infinite
game". And an OST meeting or conference is a
finite game which seems to open up an experience
of the infinite game in a beautiful way. And
yet, there's still value in seeing the finite
game aspects of OST in that context.<br>
<br>
Alas, perhaps this attempt will be futile. But I
hold out hope that others won't be discouraged
from this perspective on OST as a game and it's
benefits.<br>
<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
On 10/7/13 1:25 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dan
– Using the word, “game” as you do, I
guess it sort of works with OS, but I do
confess a certain feeling of cognitive
dissonance, which I suspect may be shared
by some of my colleagues. In any event, it
certainly would not be a word I would use.
But that doesn’t mean a great deal.
However, when you say, “Leaders choose to
play OST. Or not,” I do feel called upon
to say something like... Oh Yes? </span></p>
<div><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Some
people refer to the “Game of Life,” but it
is scarcely a game you choose to play (or
not). Not playing is called suicide, I
think, and while some people do make that
choice it is not a choice that most folks
would considered good, useful, or
positive. It is more like canceling all
choices. Out of the Game, so to speak.</span></p>
<div><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
feel rather the same way about OS, and for
all the same reasons. OS for me is not a
process we choose to do or not do – quite
simply it is what we are -- Self
organizing, and OS is only an invitation
to be ourselves fully and purposefully. We
can chose to be ourselves with
distinction, despair, or something in
between -- but so long as we remain on
the planet in some viable form, we got no
choice. We are what we are, what we are.
Put a little differently, OS is not
something new and different, it is just a
small name change for what has been around
for quite a while: life. I guess you can
call it a game, but somehow that seems to
miss some of the nuances.</span></p>
<div><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br
class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harrison
</span></p>
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class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
Harold Shinsato<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="javascript:_e({},%20'cvml',%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20'harold@shinsato.com');"
target="_blank">harold@shinsato.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://shinsato.com/" target="_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
twitter: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/hajush"
target="_blank">@hajush</a></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Michael Herman<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://MichaelHerman.com">MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
(312) 280-7838
<p>Sent from my iPhone<br>
</p>
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