<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Hi!<br><br></div>I like this conversation about what OS is. And this practice notion is a bit complicated. I as non Enlgish speaker I looked for the meanings of the word and got confused. Could you Michael say it in other words what you mean that OS is practice (first of all). Especially when I read "do the practice" I cant understand the meaning.<br>
<br></div>Be well,<br><br>Arno<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div> <div><font color="#000099"><b> <img src="https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17559693/allkiri5.jpg" width="90" height="96"></b></font></div>
</div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/9/25 Michael Herman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michael@michaelherman.com" target="_blank">michael@michaelherman.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">When I hear folks simplifying open space into a tool or technique, my usual response is to point out that circle is a tool, bulletin board is a tool, etc. Open Space is a <i>practice</i>, incorporating a number of these different tools. And hopefully, my use of them together is getting more and more skillful over time. To me, "practice" includes the suggestion that we do it once, as best we can, and then we try again, and again, learning and refining as we go. <div>
<br></div><div>My felt sense of this is a little different from "values and principles" though I don't think calling OS or agile or scrum that is incorrect. For me the difference is that I hold values and principles, but practice is something that <i>holds me</i>.<div>
<br></div><div>I also like to suggest that open space is a robust practice, a sufficient practice. Everything that's needed is there in the basic story and mechanisms. We don't need to do anything more, add in different things. Just do the practice and we get the experience, get the learning, the performance, the self-organizing, the breathing.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your story, Harold.</div><div><br></div><div>M <div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div> <br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br>
312-280-7838 (mobile)<br><br><a href="http://MichaelHerman.com" target="_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br><a href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target="_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br><br></div><div><div class="h5">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Peggy Holman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com" target="_blank">peggy@peggyholman.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Harold,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for bringing your knowledgable and eloquent perspective. </div><div><br></div><div>Great to see these two communities working through an understanding of each other. With you and others as translators, I think Agile is in good hands.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Peggy</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><br><div>
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Helvetica;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Arial;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Arial;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Arial;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Arial;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Arial;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Arial;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span style="border-spacing:0px;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;font-variant:normal;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;line-height:normal;border-collapse:separate;text-transform:none;font-size:medium;white-space:normal;font-family:Arial;word-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>__________________________________</div><div>Peggy Holman</div><div>Journalism that Matters</div><div>15347 SE 49th Place</div><div>Bellevue, WA 98006</div><div><a href="tel:425-746-6274" value="+14257466274" target="_blank">425-746-6274</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.org" target="_blank">www.journalismthatmatters.org</a></div><div><div><a href="http://www.peggyholman.com" target="_blank">www.peggyholman.com</a></div><div>Twitter: @peggyholman</div>
<div>JTM Twitter: @JTMStream</div><div><br><b>Enjoy the award winning</b> <a href="http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/" target="_blank">Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into Opportunity</a><br><a href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system" target="_blank">Check out my series on what's emerging in the news & information ecosystem</a></div>
</div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><br></div></span><br><br>
</div><div><div>
<br><div><div>On Sep 23, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Harold Shinsato <<a href="mailto:harold@SHINSATO.COM" target="_blank">harold@SHINSATO.COM</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Harrison,<br>
<br>
About your statement "Open Space is a terrible way to introduce
some new process, and especially to assure 'buy in'".<br>
<br>
You're clearing going directly against the heart of what Dan is
trying to promote. Maybe I invite disaster for myself by speaking
an alternative view from what you are saying given your founding
status of this community - but perhaps given my 12+ years working
in the Agile space - I have something worthwhile to say.<br>
<br>
Harrison, you've been opposed to calling "Open Space" a tool. And
I hear Lisa Heft (the best Open Space trainer) talking about it
being a tool all the time.<br>
<br>
I agree with both of you. Open Space is most emphatically *not* a
tool at it's heart. It's a set of values and principles. But it is
also definitely a tool. Or as Dan says, a 'game'. A beautifully
designed game.<br>
<br>
Agile is most DEFINITELY not a process. It's a set of values and
principles. You can see this in the <a href="http://agilemanifesto.org/" target="_blank">Agile Manifesto</a> -
especially the first item, we value Individuals and Interactions
*over* Processes and Tools. Yes, the Agile community applies many
very specific tools and processes. And very heated debates happen
around the application (or misapplication) of those tools and
processes, such as Scrum.<br>
<br>
But oddly - even Scrum isn't *Really* a tool or a process. At the
heart of Scrum is also a set of principles and values. If you want
to get a sense of this - go to the end of the first book on Scrum,
by Schwaber & Beedle "Agile Software Development with Scrum" -
where it lists the 5 values of Scrum - Commitment, Focus,
Openness, Respect & Courage. Or read Tobias Meyer's "The
People's Scrum". Very powerful assertion and meditation on the
core values and how to apply the processes to get <br>
<br>
Open Space has already been used with great success to introduce,
promote and sustain Agile in the world through many uses of Open
Space in conferences such as the AgileOpen, Coaching Camps, and
Open Agile Adoption such as what Dan Mezick is explaining. From my
vantage point, Open Space is critical for helping the values and
principles to be successfully absorbed.<br>
<br>
From my vantage point - Open Space Technology's values and
principles are eternal and aren't going away. The Universe won't
suddenly stop self-organizing. If anything, we'll only get better
at understanding and dancing with Order and Chaos. This dance,
with the help of Open Space Technology the Game (or Tool) has
changed my life and infused it with spirit. I'm eternally grateful
to you, Harrison, to Lisa Heft, and to and this community. And
maybe Open Space Technology the game or tool will pass away. The
same goes for Agile values and principles. They're eternal.
They're not going away. The Process will never be more important
than the Individuals. The People are always more important than
the Game.<br>
<br>
BUT - there are powerful forces behind trying to adopt agile as
merely a tool or a process, because it's easier to understand. And
that invites failure - and it's the exact kind of failure you're
writing about, Harrison, about how our creations are "inevitably
clunky." To succeed, any implementation of Agile or Scrum needs to
be able to self-organize - "Inspect and Adapt" is one of the
anthems of the agile and scrum communities. I hope that the Open
Space community will step up and help the Agile community to do
that.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Harold<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/22/13 10:45 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dan
wrote: “I've learned that there are actually more ways to
fail with Open Space in Agile adoptions than there are ways
to succeed. There are many ways to stumble when trying
this.”<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Actually,
Dan – I am not at all surprised. I learned a long time ago
that Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some new
process, and especially to assure “buy in.” Typically,
problems arise because folks take Open Space seriously.
Instead of buying into the proposed process, they begin to
invent their own! Somewhere I wrote that OS was a great way
to design a new accounting system, but a horrible way to
“implement” it.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">And
just to be contrarian... I wonder whether the failure is a
function of Open Space or Agile (and/or the SCRUM flavor of
Agile)? As I think we have come to understand, Open Space is
a total scam if people mistake it for some process we
invented or “do.” It is simply an invitation to be what we
always have been – self organizing. The process itself (SO)
has been around for some time, and apparently has done quite
well, witness the fact that we, along with all the rest of
the Cosmos are here and seemingly functional. In a “face
off” between a well functioning self-organizing system and
any process we might have designed to create the system,
install the system, or enhance the system – the designed
process doesn’t have a chance. The reason is simple. No
matter how wise, careful, diligent or skillful we may be –
our creation is inevitably clunky. We may get the big blocks
right, even some of the finer points, but at the end of the
day we always miss the nuances – and as always, the devil is
in the details. Put somewhat differently, our designed
processes are always “averages” of what we think the process
should look like. And “averages” do not exist anywhere in
nature. To push an “average” on a natural system is always
to make it function at some sub-optimal level, and usually
to kill it.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So
maybe the order of precedence should go the other way? Use
Agile to introduce Open Space, and then abolish Agile. Or,
if you like ... Self-Organization is the natural agility. It
doesn’t get any better than that. Or something<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harrison<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harrison
Owen<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">7808
River Falls Dr.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Potomac,
MD 20854<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">USA<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">189
Beaucaire Ave. (summer)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Camden,
Maine 04843<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Phone
<a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">(summer)
<a href="tel:207-763-3261" value="+12077633261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a><span style="color:blue">www.openspaceworld.com</span></a> <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a><span style="color:blue">www.ho-image.com</span></a>
(Personal Website)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1f497d">To
subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
archives of OSLIST Go to:<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Daniel Mezick<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:26 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [OSList] Open Space with Agile: Failure
patterns<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Greetings to
you,<br>
<br>
In Paris this week at the Global Scrum Gathering I plan to
issue certain warning about specific failure patterns I have
experienced when working with Open Space inside Agile
adoptions. I can tell you right now that Open Space by itself
is not a panacea for the complex problems associated with
Agile adoption. <br>
<br>
Agile is actually a cover story about the wider act of
bringing culture change (a new and unfamiliar game) to an
enterprise situation (the old story we all want to cling to).
The SPIRIT book pretty much spells out the problem. <br>
<br>
I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail with
Open Space in Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed.
There are many ways to stumble when trying this. I'll be
enumerating some of these subtle Agile-related pitfalls and
traps in the Paris keynote on Tuesday, and in upcoming blog
posts. Simply holding one or more canonical Open Space
meetings (with full pre-planning and post processing) is not
enough to neutralize the forces that oppose healthy and well
Agile adoptions. The game mechanics, storytelling and
passage-rite-structure elements must be present and robust for
Open Space to be an effective tool in Agile adoptions. Open
Space and these elements are composed in harmony with each
other in the Open Agile Adoption technique.<br>
<br>
If you offer training in Open Space for Facilitators and/or
Sponsors, I invite you to send me your links and I will make
sure they are added to the list of resources I am beginning to
compile at <a href="http://OpenAgileAdoption.com" target="_blank">OpenAgileAdoption.com</a>. I plan to list in the Paris
slides some specific French-language OST course offerings from
French-speaking instructors located in Europe, and Quebec.<br>
<br>
Kind Regards,<br>
Dan<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p><p>Daniel Mezick, President<u></u><u></u></p><p>New Technology Solutions Inc.<u></u><u></u></p><p><a href="tel:%28203%29%20915%207248" value="+12039157248" target="_blank">(203) 915 7248</a> (cell)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/" target="_blank">Bio</a></span><span>. <a href="http://newtechusa.net/blog/" target="_blank"><span>Blog</span></a>.
<a href="http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/" target="_blank"><span>Twitter</span></a>.</span><span> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><span>Examine my new book:</span><span>
</span><span><a href="http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/" target="_blank">The Culture Game </a></span><span>: Tools for the Agile Manager</span><span>.</span><u></u><u></u></p><p>Explore Agile Team <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/" target="_blank"><span>Training</span></a> and <a href="http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/" target="_blank"><span>Coaching.</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Explore the <a href="http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/" target="_blank"><span>Agile Boston </span></a>Community.<span> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
OSList mailing list
To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a>
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<div>-- <br>
Harold Shinsato<br>
<a href="mailto:harold@shinsato.com" target="_blank">harold@shinsato.com</a><br>
<a href="http://shinsato.com/" target="_blank">http://shinsato.com</a><br>
twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/hajush" target="_blank">@hajush</a></div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>OSList mailing list<br>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
OSList mailing list<br>
To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br>
<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
OSList mailing list<br>
To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br>
<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>