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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harold said: “You're clearing going directly against the heart of what Dan is trying to promote. Maybe I invite disaster for myself by speaking an alternative view from what you are saying given your founding status of this community - but perhaps given my 12+ years working in the Agile space - I have something worthwhile to say.”<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Yes you do! And Harold – if you are waiting for disaster to strike it may well come, but not from me! A long time ago I said that Open Space is free (not franchised, trademarked, limited license, etc), BUT there is a cost – that we share what we are learning. For 28 years, I think we have done that. And doing all that sharing is (for me) the heart and soul of the OS Community. At times the conversations have been hot and heavy, with multiple points of view represented. GREAT! And that multiplicity of viewpoints has enabled us to go deeper and deeper into our collective experience. The simple truth of the matter is that none of us (and that most definitely includes me) really knows or fully understands the reality of what we are in the midst of. It is a great Question – or better – a great Quest. And we aren’t there yet, and I seriously doubt that our time of arrival is anytime soon. At least I hope not.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Given the enormity of our experience over time and space, on into the deeper and timeless spaces of the human spirit – multiple view points are not only expected, but essential. And each view point is valid, at least it is the valid view of the viewer. But all are partial, and therefore misleading – one might say false. Not unlike the blind men describing the elephant, we can only depict what we experience – but somewhere in our evolving experiences lies a fuller sense of what it is all about. One might hope for a final (correct) view, but I more than suspect that we find ourselves in an infinite regress where certainty becomes questionable... and once again we are on the edge of The Question. The Quest. I wouldn’t have it any other way.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I understand that many people find this situation uncomfortable, even frustrating. Questions are fine – but where is the ANSWER? At times this discomfort seems almost overwhelming: “Forget the Question...Give me the Answer.” I can fully appreciate the reaction, and yet something in me just can’t sit still. The given answers become momentary pauses prior to deeper and juicier questions. Answers are a resting point, but there is more...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For me a key word here is “evolving.” Our common experience (with OS), like most serious elements of life, did not (does not) come out fully formed. What began with two martinis has changed, transmogrified, transformed. Curiously it is always the same, but somehow deeper and different. And each step along the way has its own viewpoint, special words, “answers” which are correct and valid for that moment and context, but always open to further evolution. A “first timer” in Open Space will have a viewpoint which is totally appropriate to that time, place, and person. As the experience is repeated, the viewpoint seemingly expands and deepens.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Many of the sticky points we have experienced over the years (“Givens,” “Prework,” Tools,” etc) got gooey because we forgot the evolving nature of our conversation and mistook the validity of a particular point of view for a “final answer.” I would guess this has been compounded by the fact that the norms of our conversations here on OSLIST are quite different from the more usual situation. One might presume, if we conducted our business in the same manner that other groups do – that when the Founder (that would be me) or some other “elder” said something online – that saying was The Law, Last word, or “Truth.” We play by different rules, and I personally assume that any statement I make is just as “questionable” as any other. Truth to tell, I often feel somehow cheated when there isn’t some further and different discussion. So yes, I say what I experience and think (hopefully acknowledging the difference), presuming everybody else will do the same... with charity, politeness, a smile – and a Question. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So is OST a “tool” – just like every other group work tool? Of course. But then again, it (OS) doesn’t quite seem to fit. Unlike any other Group Process, you don’t have to do very much, if anything. Indeed the less you do, the better it seems to work. Somehow it seems that “everybody already knows...” Weird.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is Pre-Work essential? Definitely! But strangely some of the best (deepest, effective, most moving) OS’s in my experience happened without a speck of Pre-Work, except for basic logistics. And some of them didn’t even have basic logistics. Definitely odd.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Do we need to identify and consider The Givens? Certainly. If nothing else, doing so keeps some folks out of trouble and makes managers (sponsors) more relaxed. Still and all I’ve always found that when something is “placed off the table,” you can always find it under the table, or out in the hall. Scratch my head.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And Dan – Have I struck a blow to the heart of your endeavor? I hope not... ‘cause I think it is GREAT, and I’ve told you that. Indeed a basic mantra of my life is, “Open Space anywhere, about anything, with anybody, as often as you can.” That goes for the Agile folks, along with everybody else. But when it comes to outcomes and expectations maybe the real “Golden Ring” is not so much the Adoption of Agile with all those great principles, practices, and approaches, good as they are. Rather the Pot of Gold is genuine High Performance, real agility – done totally as a natural act. Kind of like what seems to happen in just about every Open Space. Possible?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank You Harold!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harrison <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Camden, Maine 04843<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(summer) 207-763-3261<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.openspaceworld.com%20"><span style='color:blue'>www.openspaceworld.com</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="www.ho-image.com%20"><span style='color:blue'>www.ho-image.com</span></a> (Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"><span style='color:blue'>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lisa Heft<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 23, 2013 12:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> World wide Open Space Technology email list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] Open Space with Agile: Failure patterns<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Harold - you teach me so much - in every way you see, reflect upon and thoughtfully articulate your observation and experiences.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Tool, process, way of live, value system.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Open Space Technology, which also means not 'technology' in the commonly used sense of that word but instead a way of being (both existing in us and when invited by us and our clients). Which was always there, which maybe some people have not experienced or felt (yet), which maybe some people have to breathe into and experience to remember how they, their organization, their issue, individuals, the whole, is a living system.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dan I know that a single 'intervention' or experience does not in itself usually change organizational or individual behavior. Nor does a single acupuncture treatment immediately shift-forever-suddenly-well a health situation. In your community as in others, I know that Agile folks will benefit from ongoing, regular 'body work'. So in one of your earlier messages about maintaining 'wellness' (my work) afterwards - to me, it is all about the before (pre-work, relationships, thoughtful preparation), the during (a lovely and productive Open Space), and the afterwards (continuing interconnections, continuing relationships, highlighting information, ideas and relationships that were generated at the event - and doing so between events, Open Space and otherwise).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>A living system that is benefiting so much from all you Agile / Open Space 'body workers'….<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS","sans-serif"'>Lisa<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sep 23, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Harold Shinsato <<a href="mailto:harold@shinsato.com">harold@shinsato.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Harrison,<br><br>About your statement "Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some new process, and especially to assure 'buy in'".<br><br>You're clearing going directly against the heart of what Dan is trying to promote. Maybe I invite disaster for myself by speaking an alternative view from what you are saying given your founding status of this community - but perhaps given my 12+ years working in the Agile space - I have something worthwhile to say.<br><br>Harrison, you've been opposed to calling "Open Space" a tool. And I hear Lisa Heft (the best Open Space trainer) talking about it being a tool all the time.<br><br>I agree with both of you. Open Space is most emphatically *not* a tool at it's heart. It's a set of values and principles. But it is also definitely a tool. Or as Dan says, a 'game'. A beautifully designed game.<br><br>Agile is most DEFINITELY not a process. It's a set of values and principles. You can see this in the <a href="http://agilemanifesto.org/">Agile Manifesto</a> - especially the first item, we value Individuals and Interactions *over* Processes and Tools. Yes, the Agile community applies many very specific tools and processes. And very heated debates happen around the application (or misapplication) of those tools and processes, such as Scrum.<br><br>But oddly - even Scrum isn't *Really* a tool or a process. At the heart of Scrum is also a set of principles and values. If you want to get a sense of this - go to the end of the first book on Scrum, by Schwaber & Beedle "Agile Software Development with Scrum" - where it lists the 5 values of Scrum - Commitment, Focus, Openness, Respect & Courage. Or read Tobias Meyer's "The People's Scrum". Very powerful assertion and meditation on the core values and how to apply the processes to get <br><br>Open Space has already been used with great success to introduce, promote and sustain Agile in the world through many uses of Open Space in conferences such as the AgileOpen, Coaching Camps, and Open Agile Adoption such as what Dan Mezick is explaining. From my vantage point, Open Space is critical for helping the values and principles to be successfully absorbed.<br><br>From my vantage point - Open Space Technology's values and principles are eternal and aren't going away. The Universe won't suddenly stop self-organizing. If anything, we'll only get better at understanding and dancing with Order and Chaos. This dance, with the help of Open Space Technology the Game (or Tool) has changed my life and infused it with spirit. I'm eternally grateful to you, Harrison, to Lisa Heft, and to and this community. And maybe Open Space Technology the game or tool will pass away. The same goes for Agile values and principles. They're eternal. They're not going away. The Process will never be more important than the Individuals. The People are always more important than the Game.<br><br>BUT - there are powerful forces behind trying to adopt agile as merely a tool or a process, because it's easier to understand. And that invites failure - and it's the exact kind of failure you're writing about, Harrison, about how our creations are "inevitably clunky." To succeed, any implementation of Agile or Scrum needs to be able to self-organize - "Inspect and Adapt" is one of the anthems of the agile and scrum communities. I hope that the Open Space community will step up and help the Agile community to do that.<br><br> Thanks,<br> Harold<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>