<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>Paul:</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Thanks for your mail. I don't know about Schwarz. I will check it when I will have some time avaibable.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>You also said:</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span>«</span><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">Mutual learning assumes that:</span></span></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">- I have some information others have other information</span></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">- Each of us may see things the other others do not</span></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">- Differences are opportunity for
learning</span></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">- People are trying to act with integrity given their situations</span></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);">I believe OST accomplishes a great deal toward sharing these values.</span></div><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><br></span></div><div style="font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"><span style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">Is this what you mean by "profound
change"?</span>»</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">In what concerns this I would say: no! </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Those are (some)
preconditions for profound change. Profound change, or metanoia, happens when a
community consistently acts with this - or similar - principles and, effectively,
change profoundly. Normally this takes time.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br>
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</div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">If you came to Portugal,
please let me know in advance. </span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Poderemos então falar português, ao vivo e a cores ;-)</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Abraço</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style:
normal;"><span><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Artur</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Paul Nunesdea <nunesdea@me.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Artur Silva <arturfsilva@yahoo.com>; World wide Open Space Technology email list <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 26, 2013
9:08 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OSList] Profound change (was: The Open Agile Adoption story)<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv6198086709"><div><div>Artur, the work of Roger Schwarz and the skilled facilitator approach might be relevant for the notion of 'metanoia' and double loop learning you recommend bellow. This is based on the work of Chris Argyris and Donald Schön you are probably familiar with.</div><div><br></div><div>What I have realized is that every 'group process technology' is meaningful according to a set of values that are always an integral part of the 'method' being used. Schwarz talks about the unilateral control mode as opposed to a mutual learning model.</div><div><br></div><div>This 'mutual learning' is also at the core of OST values. When I read HO books, as well as work from other less known management scientist (like Peter Checkland) and from what I see your
own work since 2001, I cannot help to think about this:</div><div><br></div><div>There must be some "universal truth" out there because different individuals from different backgrounds reach similar principles, these is really odd!!!!</div><div><br></div><div>Mutual learning assumes that:</div><div>- I have some information others have other information</div><div>- Each of us may see things the other others do not</div><div>- Differences are opportunity for learning</div><div>- People are trying to act with integrity given their situations</div><div><br></div><div>I believe OST accomplishes a great deal toward sharing these values.</div><div><br></div><div>Is this what you mean by "profound change"?</div><div><br></div><div>(BTW we should be talking in Portuguese. I am going to be there this week on holidays...)</div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div>Paul </div><div><br><div>>From my iPad</div></div><div><br>On 25/08/2013, at 12:51, Artur
Silva <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:arturfsilva@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:arturfsilva@yahoo.com">arturfsilva@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Dear Michael:</span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br>
Thanks for asking about what I mean by "profound change" and sorry
for the delay in my answer.</span></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br>
Since I have joined the OSLIST (in 1998, I think) my main objective has always
been to try to understand the<span class="yiv6198086709apple-converted-space"> <span><b></b></span><b>role of OST as a tool to
facilitate profound changes</b> </span>in organizations, communities,
societies, as well as in individuals.</span></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br>
As we can talk about "root learning" versus "profound
learning" (paradigm shift) we can also talk about change that only alters
the symptoms or the accessories from change that profoundly affect the
structures and mental models of the individual, the community, the organization or even the
society at large.</span></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br>
For many year I have used (and I still use) the Greek word “metanoia” to
describe that type of change.</span></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;"><span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br>
If you make a search in the Archives of this list for "OST and
metanoia" you will see a post of <span>Tue Oct 9 2001 (which I repeat bellow, just
for fun), where I have pointed to a post in another list (</span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.learning-org.com/01.10/0025.html">http://www.learning-org.com/01.10/0025.html</a>)
to define the concept of “metanoia” based on the Italian sociologist Alberoni
and then asked four questions trying to relate “OST and Metanoia”. </span></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;">
<span></span></div><div style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;"><span style="color:black;">The thread had the participation of people like the late Laurel,
Florian, Reinhardt, Meg Salter, Harrison, Chris Weaver - that commented parts
of it - and only one post that tried to answer to all my 4 questions: a post
from the late Fr. Brian Bainbridge (<i>Sun Nov 25</i><span>). Here is my old post that initiated that
conversation. </span>Enjoy.</span></div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent;"><i style="background-color:transparent;"><span style="font-style:normal;"><br></span></i></div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent;"><i style="background-color:transparent;"><span style="font-style:normal;">---</span></i></div><div><h1 style="font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 255);">OST and metanoia</span></h1></div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent;"><i style="background-color:transparent;"><span style="font-style:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 255);"><b style="font-size:medium;">Artur F. Silva</b><span style="font-size:medium;"> </span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:oslist%40lists.openspacetech.org?Subject=Re%3A%20OST%20and%20metanoia&In-Reply-To=%3CTUE.9.OCT.2001.233432.0100.OSLIST%40LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU%3E"
target="_blank" href="mailto:oslist%40lists.openspacetech.org?Subject=Re%3A%20OST%20and%20metanoia&In-Reply-To=%3CTUE.9.OCT.2001.233432.0100.OSLIST%40LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU%3E" title="OST and metanoia" style="font-size:medium;">artsilva at mail.eunet.pt </a><br style="font-size:medium;"><i style="font-size:medium;">Tue Oct 9 15:34:32 PDT 2001</i><span style="font-size:medium;"></span></span></i></div><div><br><hr style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"></div><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent;"><i style="background-color:transparent;"><span style="font-style:normal;color:rgb(0, 0, 255);"></span></i></div><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;"><span style="color:rgb(0, 0, 255);">Dear OS-practitioners:
As many of you know, I am discussing in another list the problem of
enhancing organizational learning, especially double loop learning and
metanoia.
I plan, in a near future, to present OST and discuss how it can improve
double loop learning (or metanoia).
In the last post to them I have presented Alberoni's conception of
metanoia. I am asking for those of you who care about the subject to
read that post and then answer, to the list or privately to me, to this
questions, using always the meaning that Alberoni gives to "metanoia":
1) From your experience with OST, do you think that OST is an important
way to enhance metanoiaic states in organizations and communities?
2) Do you think that some concepts current in the OST community may
facilitate this? and others may make it difficult? What concepts?
3) Do you think that the OS community qualifies in itself as a "birth stage"
(of a movement or of a Community of Practice, as Etienne Wenger defines
CoP's)?
4) If so, do you think that there is a risk that the community may disperse in different "sub-practices", and that can diminish the overall metanoic
potential of OST?
For those of you that want to help me in understanding this, the
referred (and long) post can be found at:
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.learning-org.com/01.10/0025.html">http://www.learning-org.com/01.10/0025.html</a>
Thank you very much to all that will accept the challenge
Artur</span></pre><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><i style="background-color: transparent; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-style:normal;">---</span></i></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><i style="background-color: transparent; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-style:normal;"><br></span></i></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><i style="background-color: transparent; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-style:normal;">Best regards </span></i></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><i
style="background-color: transparent; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-style:normal;"><br></span></i></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><i style="background-color: transparent; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span style="font-style:normal;">Artur</span></i></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style="background-color:transparent;font-style:italic;"><br></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; background-color: transparent; font-style: italic;"></div><div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> <b><span
style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Michael M Pannwitz <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mmpannwitz@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mmpannwitz@gmail.com">mmpannwitz@gmail.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Artur Silva <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:arturfsilva@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:arturfsilva@yahoo.com">arturfsilva@yahoo.com</a>>; World wide Open Space Technology email list <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 20, 2013 5:34 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OSList] The Open Agile Adoption story<br> </font> </div> <div class="yiv6198086709y_msg_container"><br>Dear Artur,<br>tell me more about "profound changes"...<br>A couple of years ago, I
had the privilege to facilitate an OST event <br>for an agile consulting company. They schemed on how to transform their <br>organisational life and process and structure in such a way that nobody <br>would have to quit the company again on account of an employee becoming <br>parent. Since they managed to invite and have attend partners and <br>children
(including ex-employees) I knew the whole thing would be a <br>grand success. Its always been that way when I saw children attending an <br>OST event.<br>I have no idea what happened to their burning business issue. They never <br>told me which is probably a sign for them doing business as usual, <br>profoundly.<br><br>Wish you all the best in your journey... ever thought of beginning it <br>with an OST event?<br>Cheers<br>mmp<br><br>On 20.08.2013 16:21, Artur Silva wrote:<br>(...)</div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>OSList mailing list</span><br><span>To post send emails to <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a></span><br><span>To unsubscribe send an email to <a rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a></span><br><span>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:</span><br><span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></body></html>