<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div>Harrison, that assumes that selves are only humans, i.e. a physical/human conception of the self. I see it differently. I see a self in a tree, in a bird, in a bacteria. Where there is life, we see a desire for life, and that desire is a symptom of a self. <br>
<br></div>So for billions of years, selves have self-organised to keep life going, to connect, to fulfil its desires. Self-organisation is what life does.<br><br></div>I'm glad we're having this conversation as it helps us define the basic terms we're using. Or to understand from what conceptual universe we're coming from.<br>
<br></div>Btw Paul, I'm definitely older than you :p <br><br></div>Marie Ann<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:40 PM, paul levy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:paul@cats3000.net" target="_blank">paul@cats3000.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Marie and Harrison<div><br></div><div>I think the question "why does self-organisation work" is such a strong one and well worth exploring. I also connect to your notion that "selves" love to each towards each other. The following quote comes to mind:</div>
<div><br></div><div>"We realise ourselves through those around us; they speak to us through our questions of them."</div><div><br></div><div>I'm also fairly sure that we - as selves - have all been around even longer than the big bang, Harrison. I might even be older than you.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div><div>Paul</div></font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 4 February 2013 22:35, Marie Ann Östlund <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marieann.ostlund@gmail.com" target="_blank">marieann.ostlund@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif">Thank you Paul for starting this interesting thread. <br>
<br>Harrison writes:</span></span></font><div><br>"I
called it a “puckish” question (maybe “impish” would be better) if only
because it represents a delightful misstatement of the usual
understanding of “self” in the phrase “self organization,” which of
course has nothing to do with “selves” per se, but rather the perceived
fact that organization takes place all on its own – all by itself. But
your twist is all to a greater purpose, I believe: Driving straight to a
really juicy question – Who are we in a self organizing world?"<br><br></div></span></div><div><font><span style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif"><span>We may also ask: why does self-organisation work? What is the impetus for self-organisation? And the answer to that question may help us towards a more subtle understanding of the self - not as a lone ranger in competition with the world and other selves, but as a connected self (or a self striving for connection) that enjoys giving, loving, contributing to the whole - the both/and <b>personal</b> satisfaction of being connected to the <b>whole</b>. We self-organise because we love it. That<font>'s what inspires me in open space.</font><br>
<br></span></span></font></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif">Otherwise, I have a hard time with the idea that self-organisation happens entirely by its own, almost like a chemical process. Take away stuff that stops self/organisation and whoops - self-organisation happens. Yes, it does happen, but why? Just saying - it does - does not really satisfy me. Could it be that i<font>t has</font> something to do with what we are as selves? Could it be that we as selves want to connect and contribute, that we as selves are loving beings after all. It may very much have to do with the self bit in self-organisation.</span></span></font><br>
</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">"People
will say that they never have felt so valued and respected for who and
what they are (individual selves) – and simultaneously remark on the
intense experience of community to the point that the difference of
selves is hardly noticeable, and sometimes simply disappears. All one
flowing whole. That is the dance. That is self organization at work, I
think.</span>"<br><br></div></div><div><span style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif"><font>Exactly. The perfect dance between being a self in the world, and the world in the self :)</font> Thank you.<br><br></span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif">All the best,<br><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial narrow,sans-serif">Marie Ann</span><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Harrison Owen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank">hhowen@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Paul – thank you for re-posting your blog here on OSLIST. I truly enjoyed and learned from your thinking because it represents the sort of sensitive probing necessary for beginning to understand the funny thing we have called Open Space Technology, and the infinitely deeper reality of Self Organization. As for your puckish question, “What is the ‘self’ in Self Organization?” – Marvelous. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I called it a “puckish” question (maybe “impish” would be better) if only because it represents a delightful misstatement of the usual understanding of “self” in the phrase “self organization,” which of course has nothing to do with “selves” per se, but rather the perceived fact that organization takes place all on its own – all by itself. But your twist is all to a greater purpose, I believe: Driving straight to a really juicy question – Who are we in a self organizing world?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There are some folks who seem to think that a self organizing world annihilates the self – that it somehow eradicates our own unique identity and agency. We are pawns in a larger game, and very helpless pawns. The end of such thinking seems to lie in one of two spots. Either we are just the flotsam and jetsam in an unfeeling ocean with little to be or do – OR -- the whole thing is non-sense. Ann Rand lives, and the notion of self organization is simply the product of an overactive, collectivist plot.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I suspect that neither of these conclusions is valid, although both have a contribution to make. At issue is our propensity for either/or thinking, when both/and is much more effective in this situation. Not to be opaque – it is common to think of the “self” and the “organization” as two separate entities, which should never be confused or combined. To do so is to destroy both. There is a degree of comfort here, if only because I am I – and all those other poor blokes (the organization) can do what they bloody well want to! The preservation of the Self as an island fortress may be a comfort– but I don’t find it to be all that useful or accurate in the long run. It is more about both/and.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Put somewhat differently Self and Organization are, in my view, polar concepts, and integrally related; you can’t have one without the other. In the world of philosophy this is often referred to as the self/world correlation, which means simply that you never had a self apart from a world/organization and <i>vice versa.</i> This may seem a little obtuse, but I think we would all agree that you have never seen an organization that was not composed of selves. And the reverse is also true. Sounds a little strange maybe, but if I ask you who you are you will reply in some language, and if English that will tell me that one organization you are part of is the Anglophone world. And the likelihood is that you will continue with something like, “I am an engineer, at IBM – or whatever. Self and World in polarity.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Things get more dynamic, some might say sloppy, from this point on. Both/and thinking is a way (certainly not the only way) of thinking/talking about a dance between two poles. In this case Self and Organization. “We” (as individuals or collectives) are neither one and always on the way to the other. Kind of boggles the mind and maybe a needless sophistry – but begins to capture an experience we all share: Open Space.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Over the years of Open Space, I have noticed in myself and in the reports of fellow participants an odd contradiction which is actually a paradox. People will say that they never have felt so valued and respected for who and what they are (individual selves) – and simultaneously remark on the intense experience of community to the point that the difference of selves is hardly noticeable, and sometimes simply disappears. All one flowing whole. That is the dance. That is self organization at work, I think.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It is surely fun to think and share, particularly when we reach the edges of our certainty and the power of our expression. I do love this crazy OSLIST! And if that makes me Grandfatherly, Paul – so be it. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harrison <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harrison Owen<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">7808 River Falls Dr.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Potomac, MD 20854<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">USA<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Camden, Maine 04843<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Phone <a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">(summer) <a href="tel:207-763-3261" value="+12077633261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com%20" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.ho-image.com%20" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1f497d">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>paul levy</span></p>
<div><br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 01, 2013 8:14 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br></div><b>Subject:</b> [OSList] Open Space – 2013 and Beyond<u></u><u></u><p>
</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Well, here's the whole thing...<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
Open Space – 2013 and Beyond<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Be in no doubt, Open Space Technology is a thing. Harrison Owen specifically called (and continues to call) it a “technology”. It was a new technology designed to replace a tired old one. It was also called a technology at a time when, in management and organisational circles, facilitation methods and approaches were being called “technologies”; also “tools” and “”techniques” – more so in the United States than in the counties and cities of the United Kingdom. This particular technology was a way of conferencing and getting things done that was way better than over-fussy and over- formalised older “technologies”.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">It was a neat cultural reaction to a future being painted as robotic, with society’s problems being solved by things of steel, microchip and plastic. By embodying “softer” processes as “technologies” we had a viable alternative to plugging things into our nerve endings and veins. We could deploy alternative ways of doing things, ways of seeing the world, ways of behaving. If these could be presented simply, and if they could have a kind of enduring repeatability in different situations, then they would be viable alternatives to machines and “stuff”-based innovation. A potent and softer technology to allow us to ride the waves of change. Oh, and of course, it was a wonderful and simple alternative to over-structured, facilitator-heavy meeting process to boot!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Open Space Technology is, therefore, presented as a fairly simple, resilient, and, most importantly, transferable and repeatable THING. It is something you sort of “switch on” and, to quote Harrison, it just about “always works”.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">This particular thing is a “technology” so applicable, timeless and repeatable, because it operates according to natural law. It is an expression, in process, of self-organisation.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Open Space Technology isn’t self-organisation as much as self-organisation is Open Space.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Now, there’s been a fair amount of discussion in recent years as to what self-organisation is, and Harrison Owen himself has dived into that exciting pool of thinking and dialogue-ing. I think we are very much at the beginning of understanding what self-organisation is. It certainly begs the question “what is the self in self-organisation?”. There are a range of different answers to this and, not surprisingly, they sit on that old cherry of a line that runs from material science to religion and faith. Open Space as a field has always attracted people who see it as an embodiment of natural science in social action through a practical proof and expression of the truth of self-organisation as an underlying natural law. It has also attracted its fair share of spiritual faithfuls who see it as a magical process for making spiritual potential real in the physical world. It has given birth to articles about biological self-organisation in human social systems, alongside articles about the power of “holding the space”, walking anticlockwise, and the gonging of Tibetan Bells. And also a fair number of people who see Open Space as uniting science and spirituality in a meeting process that proves both can sit alongside each other without too much conflict.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Harrison Owen himself, when it suits him, expounds thousands of words on Open Space, how to do it, on self-organization, on wave-riding and so on. When others do the same, especially where attempts are made to elaborate the field, explore it, innovative or develop it, he often suggests that such thinking is a bit of a pointless exercise, and suggests we just go and “open some space”. It’s a charming, grandfatherly way to be, and I don’t mind it at all.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">As 2013 dawns, I’m convinced that Self-Organisation is Open Space. But I don’t buy the definition that seems to be emerging that the “self” in self-organisation doesn’t refer to individual human selves. It most certainly does. When we contemplate the world (or even universal) process, it is too easy to forget that we are contemplating ourselves as part of that world process. We don’t sit outside of the universe we are a part of. When I derive universal laws of nature, I am also deriving those as laws that flow through me. And yet there is also a process of observation by my self of my self that is then taking place. If I say, “this is true for the universe”, then I am also saying “this is true for me in the universe”. But I am also saying “My self is observing that this is true for me in the universe”. It’s the classic observer part of ourselves that observes our observing!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">There’s me (“I”), there’s the universe – and there’s also me in the universe and the universe in me.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">When we self-organise, we both organise as a collective self through community action (the collective circle) but we also observe into the circle from a standpoint that no one else in that circle can occupy. No one can be me. No one can refer to me as ‘I’ except for me! Of course there’s a danger that such an ego or self-focused view can turn into egotism, where the self is self-viewed as more important than any other self-views. But there’s also an opportunity to live what Rudolf Steiner described as a community life where, in the mirror of each human, the community finds its reflection and where, in the community, the virtues of each one is living.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Self-organisation occurs when the self organises. In community it is a dual process of the self (the individual) observing into the circle from their unique standpoint and where, he or she, also imagines and reaches beyond that singular point, into the circle, a collective space, a community endeavour, where individual selves are also cells connecting into a large self-organising being.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">This happens sometimes so brilliantly in an improvisation troupe. We see moments of individual genius but also a contribution of each self to a bigger self – the group, and when this joins up and there is flowing collaboration, a synergy arises and the group performance is even greater, never quite explainable in terms of any individual performances.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Yes, yes! The whole can be greater than the sum of the parts when the individual offers their self-part to become part of the community, allowing it to self-organise, beyond their own individual ego. We freely flow into the community, and no one knows or cares who, at that moment is blowing the wind. Equally, we step out of that circle and sing our own tune – the community self-organises, and sometimes we individually self-organise.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Situations change, needs in communities and organisations change. Sometimes the lone voice is the only voice that needs to be heard. Sometimes the lone voice needs to quieten and listen to the circle. Sometimes a wonderful mess needs to ensue, a chaos for a while, sometimes it all needs to be neat.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Open Space Technology brings lots of individual selves together and – in a way born of natural genius – creates a market place for selves to address themselves to a community need, and also for a community need to manifest in individual, group and even whole circle endeavour. Open Space is a wonderful bridge between individual and collective self. When it is truly flowing self-organisation is both individual and whole. The dynamic is musical, and often akin to dance – as dance that can been seen both on the stage and under a microscope, or even out in the starry heavens.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">But sometimes the technology needs adapting. For a very good and important reason that, ironically, lies deep at the heart of self-organisation itself. This is because, although nature itself reveals its laws as timeless, one little experiment in nature appears to elude that repeating consistency. To quote Steiner again, we will only really begin to understand the human self when we realise that each human being is a unique species of one. Each of us is a new universe, a new emergent day, every single second. There is no technology that can fully hold the space for our emerging selves. Self-organisation then needs to flex, flow and emerge with our own emerging mystery. For Open Space to embody a warm, loving truth, it has to expose itself to … open space. Open Space cannot sit outside of the emergent mystery of uniqueness. It may prove itself for a while as fairly resilient. But then it becomes dogmatic, rusty, nostalgic and even a bit sad. Self-organising open space technology has to be able include re-organising its-self!<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">What are you scared of?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Happy New Year,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Paul<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div>
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OSList mailing list<br>
To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><span>"Start by doing what’s necessary; then do what’s possible; and suddenly you are doing the impossible." ~ Saint Francis of Assisi</span></div>
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