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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; ">Thanks for your
thoughts. And for not have commented some parts of my mail. Quite often,
silence is the correct answer </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; "><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600"
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; ">Some further
comments inline (sorry if this post doesn’t seem to be polite but it is only
lack of time and bad domain of the English language):<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> Harrison
Owen <hhowen@verizon.net><br>
<b>To:</b> 'Artur Silva' <arturfsilva@yahoo.com>; 'World wide Open
Space Technology email list' <oslist@lists.openspacetech.org> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 17, 2012 2:38 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [OSList] OST Foundations again (Was:...)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT">Artur – As usual
you are there! To continue the conversation, some thoughts about your comments:
--</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT">You said, </span><span lang="EN-US">“It is true that everything
self-organize.<b> But there are known phenomena (like crystals, for
instance) where past self-organization created a "closed system"</b>.
In what concerns organizations, if they cease to have enough diversity or of
being open to the environment they can also get trapped in an "almost
closed organization". </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US">In what concerns
an <b>OST event</b> that doesn't matter much - just see if the
pre-conditions are there, and if they are, just do it! But from the point of
the view of the organization/community that is not enough: they have a concern
(that I share) about what comes next. How can we (they) profit from that
"magic" in the medium/long term? And that is, for me, a different
question - a different animal, would you probably say.”</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT">I like your
“almost closed organization.” My starting premises are – All Systems are open.
All systems are self organizing.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"><br>
</span><b><span lang="EN-US">You have not answered (again)
to my observation about "crystals"</span></b><span lang="EN-US">. Are crystal closed systems
or not? (Prigogine said that they are; but you may have a different
opinion...) </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"><br>
And that includes human systems. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US">If crystals are
closed systems, your statement</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:
Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;
mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:
PT"> "that includes human systems" </span><span lang="EN-US">means what?</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT">But as you say,
there are some “almost closed organizations.” What gives? One thing is that
while we cannot/do not organize self organizing systems </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US">First, I would
like to comment that human systems are generally purposeful. I agree that </span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT">"we cannot/do not
organize self organizing systems", </span><span lang="EN-US">but would you agree with me
that we can <b>design</b> purposeful human systems in such a way as
to <b>cultivate</b> or <b>enhance</b> their self-organizing
characteristics? (I have done that quite often with many classes of students of
mine, but maybe I am wrong and I have designed nothing... Maybe all happened by
chance.... Some of my positivist and mechanistic colleagues would agree with that,
btw. Even if it is consistent over the years, they prefer to think it is (<b>lots of</b>) chance…! </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"><br>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"><br>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT">– it is totally
possible to stop or certainly impede the process of self organizations. It
seems to me, this is what happens in many, many organizations. When our efforts
are fully successful, the organization dies. Even with partial success, we
managed to reduce organization function to minimal levels. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"><br>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US">Agreed!</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"><br>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT">This is a story
that is told every day and the outward symptoms are lack of creativity,
boredom, frustration, low morale, etc. All the things that we can now charge a
lot of money to fix! But there is an easier way (but not so good for the/our
bottom line) – just re-energize the self organization process, and most of the
pathology will fall away, if the patient is not already dead. I think this is
what happens every time we open space in a seemingly closed, moribund,
hidebound, autocratic organizations. Seems like magic, but it is not – Just
good old self-organization doing its job.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;
color:#1F497D;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US">I like your "</span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT"> just re-energize the
self organization process</span><span lang="EN-US">”, but how do we do that? Imagine for instance a public organization, where
the boss (es) is (are) not open to opening the space and where the
"lateral functions" are minimized by the current systems in place.
How would you suggest that we can " </span><span lang="EN-US" style="mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri;mso-bidi-font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US;mso-fareast-language:PT">re-energize the self
organization process </span><span lang="EN-US">"?</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US"><br>
Warm regards</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US">Artur</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span lang="EN-US">PS: MH - thanks
for your comments. I will answer that as soon as I can digest that...</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></div></div><div style="font-family: verdana, helvetica, sans-serif; "><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; "> </div> </div> </div></body></html>