<div class="im">Arthur in the ideal world perhaps there would be no need for training or even facilitators like many of us on this OS list.<br><br>I
have known folks who simply took Harrison's User Guide book and ran
with it. Jorge Amigo in Chile did this very successfully with a large
banking client, never once having seen OS in action first. Thousands got
to experience the process over a 3-year period because he " had just
jumped in". I was never as brave. <br>
<br></div>I have also seen participants who shared that they were at an Open
Space event before and that it looked nothing like the one they may have just
experienced now, one where the facilitator honored the very simple process
which allowed space for individual and collective passion and
responsibility to ignite. <br><div class="im">
<br>One could easily say that "life is Open Space" so let's just let it all hang out.<br><br></div>I
ask myself this question often, wondering if what I am doing is the
right thing to do. I also realize that to know what I know, to do what I
do, I had to "unlearn" a bunch of stuff. I'm still unlearning my old
ways every day and it's been really great to get support from many here. <br>
<br>My first training in Ottawa with others helped me see what I
could not see before, in a simple and beautiful way. Perhaps this would
have happened by just attending an Open Space. Who knows? And yet it
led me to Harrison, his books and the friendship we all share with him,
and to all of you on this OS list. Not an exclusive group by any means
and I have no doubt that our work has spawned dialogues and groups
everywhere on the same stuff that we talk about and share here. And
there is this other BIG thing that's about giving each other courage,
learning to be vulnerable together and being comfortable with not
knowing, no right or wrong, just whatever is right now. <br><div class="im">
<br>Artur, I love your analogy of the bike and perhaps in the invitation
of what we do, our role is simply to let people peek and see what might
be and to nudge people along to "get on that bike". <br><br>Some of us
had parents nudging us along; some of us got training wheels first,
others just saw the big kids and decided to give it a try. What we all
know is that once we got on that bike, the feeling of freedom, with wind
blowing in our hair is something that we would wish everyone to have.
We can't ride the bike for others, hold it or guide it. Most of us fall
down at first and get bruises along the way. It normally doesn't stop
us, we figure it out and we just get right back on, timidly for some,
determined for others. <br>
<br></div>So in the end, call it training, teaching, nudging or inviting, I'm just glad
that I got to meet Open Space cause it's as much fun as riding a bike
and I hope others join in so they can have fun too, fully experiencing
in their own way what riding a bike is like. <br>
<br>Suzanne<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Artur Silva <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arturfsilva@yahoo.com">arturfsilva@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif"><div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">I completely agree with you, Diane,
and especially when you say "</span><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">That is why, I now
start the training workshops with no personal introductions or “expectations or
hopes" exercises - otherwise many leave believing that intros etc. are
part of OS, and that, despite the numerous explanations and reminders we used
to give as trainers. People remember what they do, not what you say. A change
of mental model is easier when people can first experience OS in its real form,
without any distractions.</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">”<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">Indeed, I have been struggling for some time now about giving or not a
course on OST at the Portuguese Open Space Institute. And I have concluded
(again) that I will not give a formal course, because I don't believe in
"teaching/training OST". And I also believe that there is no need for
it. <u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">Just do the real thing about a matter of concern for the participants,
having proposed them to read the User's Guide before. Then give time for the
participants to open some space wherever they can. Do an OSonOS to reflect on
those experiences and regularly other ones. When the time comes, and when they
see the need for it, some subjects can be object of OSonOS's on specific
matters, like the "pre-work", to give only one example. <u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">This is not really training - it is an invitation for learning or nurturing
learning by collectively reflecting in the practice by the community
interested. Learning and perfecting OST is like learning how to ride a bicycle.
If one follows a lot of "class training on bicycles" but never tries
to mount one, one will never learn. Later, one will need to practice and
collectively reflect on one's and others' practices.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt;background-repeat:initial initial;background-image:initial"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">Comments?<u></u><u></u></span></div>
</div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Artur</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>-------------</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>- </span></div><div><br></div> <div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:verdana,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Diane Gibeault <<a href="mailto:diane.gibeault@rogers.com" target="_blank">diane.gibeault@rogers.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
World wide Open Space Technology email list <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, February 26, 2012 12:26 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OSList] Teach Them to Fish / A Note to My Friends<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div><div><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">The
sequence you describe Harrison – <i>Fish Distributors, Fishing Teachers, and
then “Gone fish‘in” looking for other fish to fry</i> – captures well this rich
exchange. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><i><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">How
fast can people start fishing, </span></i><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">one of your earlier questions, remains an important one.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><i><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">Do
I truly believe that people can fish for themselves?</span></i><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> is probably a good
place to start to address the question on how fast. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">People
are not only ok, but are better off without the usual facilitation rituals of
personal intros and exercises to connect. Accepting that is one of the big challenges I
hear from some people who participate in OST training: trusting the OS process
and the group. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">That
is why, I now start the training workshops with no personal introductions or
“expectations or hopes" exercises - otherwise many leave believing that
intros etc are part of OS, and that, despite the numerous explanations and
reminders we used to give as trainers. People remember what they do, not what
you say. A change of mental model is easier when people can first experience OS
in its real form, without any distractions.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">Participants
now receive the theme, the question and the givens, weeks in advance of the
training, so they are prepared, ready and willing. I basically explain in
the morning that we are jumping right away into our Open Space event so we can
have a clear unobstructed understanding of what OS is (no mix-up with training
things) and so that, with our OS experience as a level playing field, we can
later pursue our co-learing on OS.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">People
have often said often how relieved they were to not introduce themselves at the
OS opening, not having to measure up to the one-liner of experts or renowned
participants. Instead, when joining a group to discuss a topic of common
interest, they immediately felt safe to connect, eager for introductions and
did so with greater authenticity. The moment had real meaning for them. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">Introductions
- even in smaller groups at the OS opening - are also a contradiction of OS
principles, first the circle: participation on an equal basis. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">The
other principle: whoever comes, has some passion for the theme and is willing
to contribute. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">Applying
those assumptions as a facilitator at the OS opening, in our very first gesture
with the group, is truly modeling our belief in those principles and more
importantly, our belief in people in general and in particular, those who chose to be there. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">No
surprise that participants express relief at having found a way of working
where they feel trusted and respected, …without the traditional need to be
“massaged into it”.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">We
could say they not only know how to fish but have found the Zen of fishing.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US">We
hear them talk about liberation, about being encouraged to breath freely. </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"><i>How
fast can people start fishing? </i>You are right: <span>as fast as we get out of
the way and let them go to it.</span></span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"><i><br></i></span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial" lang="EN-US"><span>Diane</span></span></div>
</div><div><div style="color:rgb(67,67,67);font-size:11px;background-color:transparent;font-style:normal;font-family:Verdana"><div style="color:rgb(139,139,139)"><span style="color:rgb(96,96,96)"><br></span></div></div><div>
<font face="Verdana"><span style="line-height:16px"><span></span></span></font></div></div><div><br><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px"> <div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times,serif"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Harrison Owen <<a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank">hhowen@verizon.net</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' <<a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a>> <br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, February 25, 2012 2:43:07 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OSList] Teach Them to Fish / A Note to My Friends<br> </font> </div> <br><div><div><div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">Bernd – No problem. Totally understand where you are coming from. At the end of the day if you empower someone, by whatever means or degree – you have, at least to some real extent, dis-empowered them. Or at the very least, further encumbered their situation. All that said there are indeed times when the ONLY thing you can do in the moment is hand out a fish. Starving people, still less dead ones – don’t learn very well… to fish or anything else. However, if your actions end with fish distribution, or almost as destructive, you do teach them to fish, but then hover over their shoulders to make sure they do it RIGHT, well that is a different kettle of fish (sorry about that </span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Wingdings">J</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">). Maybe there is a sequence here – Fish Distributors, Fishing Teachers, and then “Gone fish ‘in” – looking for other fish to fry. Or something.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">Harrison </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif"> </span></div>
<div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">Harrison Owen</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">7808 River Falls Dr.</span></div><div>
<span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">Potomac, MD 20854</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">USA</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)</span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">Camden, Maine 20854</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif"> </span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">Phone <a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a></span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif">(summer) <a href="tel:207-763-3261" value="+12077633261" target="_blank">207-763-3261</a></span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif"> </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif"><a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span></div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif"><a href="http://www.ho-image.com" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website)</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Consolas">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a></span></div>
</div><div><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:sans-serif"> </span></div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><div><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif"> <a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bernhard Weber<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, February 25, 2012 1:24 AM<br><b>To:</b> World wide Open Space Technology email list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] Teach Them to Fish / A Note to My Friends</span></div></div></div><div> </div><div>
Harrison, </div><div><div> </div></div><div><div>I have been living so long under conditions where the giver/beggar word pairing is not only a metaphor (Beira is the capital of Sofala province in Mozambique), so I had to deal with the problem also at a very practical level and on base of that I want to say:</div>
</div><div><div> </div></div><div><div>I fully agree </div></div><div><div>and would like to complete something that I wrote in my last posting in answering what Artur has written. </div><div><div> </div></div><div><div>
Yes the giver-beggar relation creates conditions for helplessness and continued dependence and subservience. And yes, the dynamics is independent from
altruistic intentions.</div></div><div><div>And I would complete, if you have a feeling for yourself and/or a spiritual perspective this means, such kind of giving is also bad for the giver, his/her mental costume and/or karma.</div>
</div><div><div> </div></div><div><div>But when I wrote in my last posting: sometimes you should also give the fish (meaning that nobody who is starved can learn) isn't that a contradiction?</div></div><div><div>Yes it is, but</div>
</div><div><div>a) contradictions as such are not necessarily bad. At least they are good for triggering thinking processes if not for more (like being a basic ingredient for self-organization, this also refers to the dissence-thread of this groups)</div>
</div><div><div>b) it all depends on the real process.
If
temporary dependence is a price for helping out from helplessness so that further steps can follow, like learning, like disappearing of the giver, teacher, blurring/integrating of roles to teacherlearners and learnerteachers, I would say it is an acceptable price</div>
</div><div><div> </div></div><div><div>Bernd</div></div><div><div> </div><div><div><div>On Feb 24, 2012, at 3:01 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:</div></div><div><br><br></div><div><span><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif">The secondary point may be less than obvious. When you are simply handed a fish the conditions for learned helplessness and continued dependence, to say nothing of subservience are created. Even with the best, most altruistic
intentions in the world, a fish handout has its problems.</span></span><span><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:sans-serif"> </span></span></div></div><div> </div></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Suzanne Daigle<br>NuFocus Strategic Group<br>7159 Victoria Circle<br>University Park, FL 34201<br>FL 941-359-8877; <br>CT 203-722-2009<br><a href="http://www.nufocusgroup.com" target="_blank">www.nufocusgroup.com</a><br>
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