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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bernhard—Far from inappropriate, I think the thoughts/question you offer are spot on – to quote the Brits. I do confess to a certain sensitivity when speaking of OS and possible “spiritual” connections if only because some folks seem convinced that the whole experience is whacky, and would just love to consign it to that lovely box, “Cult Fetish.” That done, they can quickly return to their standard practice of managing, organizing, and being in organizations – doing more of what they have always done and getting the same miserable results. And that IS a value judgment! Sorry about that </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>L</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>All that said, I have for years been intrigued, to put it mildly, with the apparent connection/similarity between the reported effects of the several global “Practices” – Buddhism for one, but there are many others – and the common experience in Open Space. At a personal level, and particularly when it comes to facilitating an Open Space, I have found my own meditative practice to be critically essential. Several years ago when doing some work in Japan, my host asked if there was anything he could do for me. I replied that spending several days with a Zen Master would be terrific. I did and it was. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Under the heading of full disclosure, be it known that I am an Anglican (Episcopalian) Priest, and have been for 50+ years, although truth to tell, I haven’t been connected to a church for a long time. With such a history, one might reasonably suspect a certain bias, which doubtless exists – but in my case it feels more like an enhanced sensitivity to things that happen in realms of our experience not rigidly defined, or necessarily accepted by, the Western Scientific mind. Don’t get me wrong, I am an avid follower of science at its best, be that physics, biology, cosmology… And by the way did you catch the latest scoop on the Higgs Boson? Might even exist! I do find myself smiling, however when some of my “sciency” friends chide me for my esoteric interests and strange language. These are the same folks who go into rhapsody over Quarks, Up and Down -- and spend endless hours of debate as to whether the essential elements of the Cosmos are points, strings, or banes! And how about 11 time/space dimensions?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I admit that I did get a little upset several years ago when a died in the wool, hardnosed, secular materialist (his description) backed me in a corner and accused me of trying to create a new religion – and of course he was talking about Open Space. But then I knew I had him. I confessed that OST was indeed spirit inspired. However, his victory smile went south when I added that the essential spirit bore the label, “Beefeaters” – and that two very stiff snorts did the job.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>All joking aside, Bernhard – from where I sit the issues you raise are relevant, interesting, and thought provoking. In truth we have been there before over the years here on OSLIST, but now would be a wonderful time for a deeper re-visit. I’m on.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harrison <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Harrison Owen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>7808 River Falls Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Potomac, MD 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>USA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Camden, Maine 20854<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Phone 301-365-2093<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(summer) 207-763-3261<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.openspaceworld.com<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D'>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org"><span style='color:blue'>http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bernhard Weber<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 14, 2011 12:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> World wide Open Space Technology email list<br><b>Subject:</b> [OSList] Individual and collective master (was: OST - Open Systems Thinking)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Harrison and all<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I like the recently upcoming discussion about the history of Systems Thinking, but I would also like to make a big jump from this. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am not shure, but to me it seems to not be by pure "accident". <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>1. Recently Stanley park wrote "Now is the territory of Peace- Nirvana" <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>2. And some days later you Harrison wrote "<span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Open the space of your life and the lives of those around you, and you will discover your own natural state". </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>"Your own natural state", that is exactly how Buddhist masters (like e.g. Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, the contemporary Tibetan Dzogchen-teacher) refer to what is often called enlightenment, liberation, Rigpa, ... </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Although it is not really possible to "feel" something behind the words of a written posting, I always felt some kind of reluctance by side of you, when somebody in the group related the effects of OST or the OS spirit to central Buddhist concepts. Would you prefer to not discuss it (treat it as a tabu) or am I completely wrong here? (And my feeling demasked as pseudo-feeling;-)</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I am here in Sri Lanka at the beginning of the 7th year of residence, the place/space where Gautamas words have been put into Pali language and written down some hundreds of years after his passing away/paranirvana. So all this is resonating in me as a kind of effect of the Spirit of the space/genius loci. </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Anyhow I would like to invite you and all to explore, if the following idea makes sense: </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>What the two citations above seem to hint at in my eyes , is a quite specific function/effect of Open Space: being a trigger for processes during which not only things get done, as it has been pointed out again and again, but a trigger for processes that may also lead to enlightenment. If there is some value in that idea, then OS might be a collective equivalent of a master</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A master also can only be a trigger, because as already the historical Gautama (called the Buddha) stated, that he can, on basis of his own experience only show the way, point to the right direction, but the practitioner has to do the work. There is no way that the master can do it (the full liberation, the reaching of the natural state) for the student.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So I am wondering if the efficiency and effectiveness of OST in getting things done, is not intrinsicly knitted together with (alias dialectically connected to) this "collective master function". Two sides of one medal?</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Of course I am not interested to tie OS to Buddhism as a belief system. </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>But of course my understanding of the ways to enlightenment is also not tied to a specific belief system. I have luckily been exposed to "passion, responsability and love " in- and outside of OST in various cultures like my own Christian culture in Austria, Candomblé in Brazil, animistic cults (as the christians call them) in Africa, Buddhism of the Theravada, Mahayana, and Tibetan tradition (Buddhism fused with Bön), Yoga in India... And it always works and in all kinds of places.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So once again: might it be legitimate, make sense and be useful to look at OST as a kind of set up for a collective master without a present individual guru?</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Or not?</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bernd/Colombo</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>. </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br>Bernd Weber<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Change Facilitation s.r.o., </span><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#144FAE'>A Global Partner Who Makes Change Happen in Complex Environments; <a href="http://www.change-facilitation.com">www.change-facilitation.com</a>, <a href="http://www.change-management-toolbook.com">www.change-management-toolbook.com</a> <a href="mailto:bernd.weber@change-facilitation.org">bernd.weber@change-facilitation.org</a>; Regional </span></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone numbers: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>-Austria: +43 664 135 4828</span><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#144FAE'>, landline + 431 5968657)</span></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:#144FAE'>-Sri Lanka: landline +94 11 2785859, </span></span><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:blue'>iPhone +94 777740757</span></span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>NEW: Intensive Learning Workshop <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>"Playing with the Waves of Change" <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="http://www.change-facilitation.com/">www.change-facilitation.com/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>You want to have the design for a "Playing with the Waves (of Change) WS 2 completely taylor-made according to your individual learning interests & needs & limitations? Then have a look to the questionnaire at<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/5ZDS6JQ">www.surveymonkey.com/s/5ZDS6JQ</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>If you get Email from my account <<a href="mailto:bernd.weber@change-facilitation.org">bernd.weber@change-facilitation.org</a>> please do not use the reply button but answer to <<a href="mailto:weberb@gmx.at">weberb@gmx.at</a>>, because my <a href="http://change-facilitation.org">change-facilitation.org</a> INBOX is not working for the time being.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Am 13.12.2011 um 22:11 schrieb Harrison Owen:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>discover your own natural state</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>