<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Bui,<div><br></div><div>I don't know if he's on this list, but I'm going to forward your question to Bill Mahoney. He is a long-time union guy who knows and uses Open Space in many situations. He's the one who brought about the first Open Space I experienced. It was at U S WEST Communications in 1994. It wasn't specifically a labor-management negotiation; however, like the meeting in Venezuela that Harrison described, it sure changed relationships in a good way.</div><div><br></div><div>Peggy</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; 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color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>_________________________________</div><div>Peggy Holman</div><div><a href="mailto:peggy@peggyholman.com">peggy@peggyholman.com</a></div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; font-family: Helvetica; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>15347 SE 49th Place</div><div>Bellevue, WA 98006</div><div>425-746-6274</div><div><a href="http://www.peggyholman.com">www.peggyholman.com</a></div><div><a href="http://www.journalismthatmatters.org">www.journalismthatmatters.org</a></div><div><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: medium; "><div><br></div><div><b>Enjoy the award winning </b><a href="http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/">Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into Opportunity</a></div></div><div> <br>"An angel told me that the only way to step into the fire and not get burnt, is to become <br>the fire".<br> -- Drew Dellinger</div></div><div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></div></span></div></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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<br><div><div>On Oct 27, 2011, at 5:38 PM, Bui Petersen wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>I totally agree with everything you said, Harrison. And thanks for the beautiful story.<br><br>The thing is that in situations where the parties have officially implemented "interest-based bargaining", they commonly have elaborate scheme of training of the participant followed by a facilitated negotiation process. What I'm thinking, you'd likely agree with this, that it may be much more effective let people do this through a self-organizing process like OST.<br><br>One reason for looking for examples where this has been done is that I'm thinking of writing a paper about it. The other reason is that (as we all know) people are often afraid of doing something new and examples of this having been done successfully elsewhere is one thing that can help calm those fears. It is often only in situations where the conflict is really bad and destructive that people are willing to open up to new ways of doing things because what they have is obviously so bad that just about anything new is likely to be better. I think your story is a good illustration of that.<br><br>As we all know, one the main reasons for people resisting doing things like OST is that they are afraid of losing control. But as unions often suspect that new approaches to bargaining are management ploys to undermine union power, chances are that many might think the same about OST. The more examples that show that this is not the case the better.<br><br>Thanks for your input.<br><br>Bui<br><br>On 27/10/2011 4:42 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">I am sure I am missing some of the nuances -- but at some level it seems to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">me that Open Space is precisely "interest based bargaining." That after all<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">is what happens in the market place at the start, and on an ongoing basis as<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">people "vote with their feet" -- which is effectively multi-party bargaining<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">relative to the available time/space/interest of the folks (at the very<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">least).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I have a rather different take on the Union hesitance which may be more<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">about perceived loss of power than concern for the effectiveness of any<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">resulting agreement. To be sure there are situations where only a call to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">arms will do (strike, hardnosed bargaining, etc) -- but typically I find<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">these are endgame scenarios of a zero sum game. Management AGAINST Union and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">vice versa. Somebody wins and somebody looses. But this doesn't have to be,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and more often than not is a lose/lose situation. Nobody really wins because<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">at the end of the day, and even though wages increase or new benefits<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">achieved -- the atmosphere is poisoned (talk about a "happy, productive work<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">place?") and a set of work rules put in place that are so complex and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">restrictive that, were they truly to be followed, no useful work could get<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">done. Sounds insane I know, but I have experienced dozens of places in such<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">dire straits.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sanity breaks out when it is recognized by all that such bargaining (like<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">War) is a tool of last resort. Sometimes you have to do it, but the cost is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">extreme, especially when there are more effective alternatives. And Open<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Space is such an alternative.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I have totally lost track of the number of situations where, in highly<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">charged/conflicted situations, the simple act of opening space was more than<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">sufficient to focus all the energy of conflict in more productive<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">directions. I remember, for example, a sugar plant in Venezuela where the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">hostility was such that Plant Manager and the Union Chief were found at<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">machete points. Not nice. We opened space for everybody some 500 folks. And<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">believe me they put it all on the table. Loudly! And if somebody was shy<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">about raising an issue because "management" would "get them" -- there always<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">seemed to be 3 or 4 other folks who felt no such constraints. For something<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">like 16 hours straight they went at it. And then a strange thing happened.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The closing circle happened when it was ready -- and began in a rich<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">silence. Needless to say we didn't pass a talking stick around all 500 --<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">but we really didn't have to. The Plant Manager stood up and walked over to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the Union chief and gave him a long hug. Everybody Cheered. People were<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">hungry and thirsty, and being South America the party started. I left a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">little early, but somewhere around 2 in the morning I am told the last Salsa<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">played.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Did they solve all the issues? Of course not. But they had done something<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">much more important. The shattered bonds of community had started to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">re-weave. They still had to write a contract, of course -- but that was just<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">details. Was it just one lucky break? Maybe, but I have seen it happen again<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and again. Of course, a little Salsa helps!<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Harrison<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Harrison Owen<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">7808 River Falls Dr.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Potomac, MD 20854<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">USA<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Camden, Maine 20854<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Phone 301-365-2093<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(summer) 207-763-3261<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com">www.openspaceworld.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Bui Petersen<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2011 11:00 AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:oslist@lists.openspacetech.org">oslist@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: [OSList] Open Space in Collective Bargaining<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hi enormously generous and thoughtful colleagues,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I am doing some research on what is popularly called "interest-based"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">bargaining (IBB). For those unfamiliar with the term, IBB is a process<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that is intended to be more collaborative than traditional bargaining.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">One common aspect of IBB, is the creation of various committees or teams<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">consisting of both union and management that work out (creative if<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">possible) solutions to the various issues being the negotiated.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I'm trying to find out if anyone on this list knows of negotiations that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">have involved OST or other self-organizing principles. One of the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">reasons I'm asking is that unions are often sceptical of IBB because<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">they think that dividing individual members into various committees<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">partially undermines their collective voice, which in essence is the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">core of union power. Thus before considering such an approach, they will<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">likely want some assurance that it can work in their interest.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Hope there is someone with experience and insight. :)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Thanks,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Bui Petersen<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">OSList mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">OSList mailing list<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>OSList mailing list<br>To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>