This is a funny one. Tahrir definitely not an open space for more reasons than no circle and no facilitator.<br><br>The Mubarak dynasty and the others floating around it that enable it, benefit directly from it, and therefore enforce it through the powers of internalized oppression, etc. also were no where near Tahrir Sq. <br>
<br>They sent in some thugs with stones on camels as their representatives because no US military gear could be seen on camera being used against civil demonstrators. The thugs seemed to have been wage-slaves like everybody else but with some pretty good wages they needed to keep knowing full well from whence they came. <br>
<br>Oh there is another actor in the whole system here. The US govt which also of course means the controlling shareholder family offices of oil or military corporations, etc. who put most of the money muscle into US elections for their Pols. Pols in turn make the appointments to State Dept, World Bank, etc. who do the US military gear deals that enable Mubarak, etc. to stay in power for 40 years and wrack up $ Billions in family "wealth". Which in turns shuffles off to Geneva, while masses of young people are under- or un-employed due to disinvestment! Those shareholder family offices also appoint Judges to US courts who turned blind eyes to all this egregious abuse of power. The Libya case seems to make clear there are other govts like France and Italy who play the same role for their own oil shareholders, although they are small potatoes compared to the quite similar and related pieces of the former Standard Oil Corporation!<br>
<br>It is a whole system and only the aggrieved on the ground stirred up and misrepresented against each other are the ones who seem to show up at Open Space for healing. So many of the actors in the whole-system are no where to be found. Aggrieved by economic or other conditions set in motion by the ones over heads and behind curtains who are not held accountable anywhere. <br>
<br>The thing the following week about "right-wing" mobs setting churches on fire to tip off the civilian violence they need to justify another crack down to keep the old powers in power was so text book. It didn't seem to work as it had so well in times past like clockwork. People are wise to them. Of course, the Brits sent in missionaries to do those religious conversions for just this purpose. Or, they resettled people from other countries so they could create the uneven economic conditions between groups that are needed to keep the people dis-unified and out of power as they need in order to divide-and-rule. <br>
<br>I hope we can all wise up and get past this very soon. We need to examine what is not in the OST circle and take democratic aim collectively as is our right on paper if not actually in practice at the moment! <br><br>
The same dynamics are now well setup in the US as the techniques are used against Americans again for the same purposes as they were before the New Deal. Like the Gold and Minerals in the ground in Afghanistan that Fortune Magazine this week reports JPMorgan is now mining out to "help improve Afghanistan's economy" and furnish to nearby "resource starved" China and India, there is plenty of uranium under the Grand Canyon and coal left in the hills of Appalachia and g-d knows what else of great worth to "resource starved" China and India. West Virginia is not the only place Mountaintop Removal could be applied! These shareholder family offices and their bankers don't want any more democratic "government" here on the North American continent interfering with regs and labor laws any more than they want one in Afghanistan! They are already well on their 30 year way of bankrupting it and rendering it neutralized, maybe close to the end of that ultra- long-dated trade! <br>
<br>A quote I heard last night, someone, maybe Lenin, knew "to dismantle a bourgeois democratic society you need to destroy its currency." I think Lenin knew about that, but he wasn't the one actually doing it because he was in no position to do so. He and his were strictly on the receiving end of that trade. That would be the exclusive preserve of bankers, central bankers, and govt appointees working for hidden private interests to do the sabotage! None of whom come to OST circles after the fact of their self-aggrandizing and destructive work...<br>
<br>Tahrir definitely not an Open Space! For many many more reasons...<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Harrison Owen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net">hhowen@verizon.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap: break-word;" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Bernd – How could you possibly apologize for the delightful posting to this LIST? For me useful conversations always go in a circle with lots of mud and gold along the way. And I feel this conversation is profoundly useful. Thank You!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">And your question is provoking in a very good sense. I started to answer and realized that any answer was inadequate – the gateways were so numerous as to be uncountable. Even worse what might seem like a gateway became a blind alley in retrospect. And blind alleys suddenly opened in unexpected ways. The story of my life! But maybe it is possible to answer on a more generic level? Two words stand out for me: Attractive and Anomaly. And then there is what I might call the “Tap Door.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Most of the gateways of my experience first appear as Attractive. That attraction is usually rather subtle, rather like the smell of baking bread. There is a growing awareness of something nice – but what that might be I am never quite sure. And so there is the gentle urge to investigate. None of this is to be confused with what some might call “mission and purpose.” Truthfully I have only a limited sense of what got my attention and no idea of where it might lead. Curiosity would be a good word here. Sort of like a kitten exploring a shopping bag, or something. The bag image, however, is misleading because I never have a strong sense of inside and outside – I get gently sucked in </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">J</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I become aware of “being inside” only after the fact and usually with a feeling of anomaly. Things don’t quite make sense, and my expectations are out of line with my experience. In the really fun situations I feel like Alice in Wonderland, knowing that “This isn’t Kansas.” There is also a sense of discomfiture and disorientation which has a bitter sweet quality. What I have taken to be given and assured is somehow compromised. In worse case scenarios “up” becomes “down” – but it is surely exciting. Space is open.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The we come to the “trap door” experience. On a perfectly calm, fine day while walking along minding my business – suddenly I fall through a hole. Nothing subtle or gentle – but space opens with a rush that literally takes your breath away. In the moment there may be a bit of panic (a lot of panic?) – but in retrospect such times have become the watersheds of my life. I can’t say I would like to repeat them, but I have no regrets.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Harrison</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Harrison Owen</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">7808 River Falls Dr.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Potomac, MD 20854</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">USA</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Phone <a href="tel:301-365-2093" value="+13013652093" target="_blank">301-365-2093</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a href="http://www.ho-image.com" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:</span><a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: blue;">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</span></a><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org" target="_blank">oslist-bounces@lists.openspacetech.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bernd Weber<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2011 12:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> World wide Open Space Technology email list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSList] The 5th Principle / Sardinia leading to "Gateways to Sustainable OS"</span></p>
</div></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; color: black;"> Lisa Heft wrote : </span></span><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black;">One less thing, and one more remembrance that telling a fact does is not the thing that makes a person feel it. Being in an experience does.</span></p>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal">Then HO wrote: </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The 5<sup>th</sup> Principle could help us to avoid missing all the truly great Open Space of the world simply because they don’t have a “proper” venue as we might understand “venue.” So if you were to ask was Tahrir Square an Open Space I suspect the immediate answer from a lot of people would be No. After all the venue was not pre-determined, people did not sit in a circle, and for sure you could not find the facilitator. Case Closed.</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The differentiation between OSTech and OS Spirit (often used explicitly a while ago, but apparently melting together for the last couple of 100s of postings) seems to be useful if I connect these thoughts:</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">From the OS Spirit "point of view" used by Lisa here: </span></span><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></span><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Open Space is where you feel/perceive/experience it (so: if you are able & open yourself: it is everywhere)</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">From the OST "point of view" used by HO in your playful way to point out the contradiction: </span></span><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></span><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Venue, pre-determined, circles, facilitator,...</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So the way I see it now is: all such efforts that are usually limited to short periods of time, which I had the luck to experience in my life like ...</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">OST, </span></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">freedom-movements, </span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">reaching a level of dialogue without domination (see: Habermas) e.g. in advanced group-dynamics' trainings </span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">sucessfully analyse resistence structures (see: Freud),</span></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">free schools</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">meditation </span></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">?</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">?</span></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">? </span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">... they all can become gateways on the voyage towards something that may not be limited to a short period of time: sustainable OPEN SPACE</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">And maybe I did not make it clear in my first posting: although I do not need the 5th principle for explicitly facilitate OST, HOs 5th-principle idea reconnected me mentally to the many places/spaces I had "accidently" and luckily gone to during my life exactly when the context/conditions/karma? for opening was in place. And it was so evident, that I could not believe that I had not seen it before. I only had to accept that the experience spaces in my head that I had labeled as "temporary bubbles of freedom" melted together with "Open Space" this morning. </span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So thank you for this multi-logue on a (non-?) fifth principle of OS(T)</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">And here comes an invitation. I would be very interested to get also your ideas and creativity for completing the "list of OS gates" that I opened above.</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></span><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">MY QUESTION IS: </span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></span><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">"WHAT OTHER GATEWAYS ON THE VOYAGE TOWARDS SUSTAINABLE OPEN SPACE HAVE YOU EXPERIENCED OR KNOW OF?"</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Bernd</span></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">P.S. Decision taken meanwhile: I WILL facilitate an open space as second part of the workshop "Playing with the Waves (of Change)" in two weeks near Ephesos in Turkey (see below).</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">P.S. 2 Sorry for the last 2 long postings, but when new ideas are whooshing around in my head I am not able to express myself in a few clear words, its always mud and gold together</span></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.5pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br><br></span></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Bernd Weber</span></p>
</div><div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: black;">Change Facilitation s.r.o., </span><span><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(20, 79, 174);">A Global Partner Who Makes Change Happen in Complex Environments; <a href="http://www.change-facilitation.com" target="_blank">www.change-facilitation.com</a>, <a href="http://www.change-management-toolbook.com" target="_blank">www.change-management-toolbook.com</a> <a href="mailto:bernd.weber@change-facilitation.org" target="_blank">bernd.weber@change-facilitation.org</a>; (</span></span><span style="font-size: 9pt;">iPhone Austria: <a href="tel:%2B43%20664%20135%204828" value="+436641354828" target="_blank">+43 664 135 4828</a><span><span style="color: rgb(20, 79, 174);">, landline <a href="tel:%2B%20431%205968657" value="+4315968657" target="_blank">+ 431 5968657</a>); Sri Lanka landline <a href="tel:%2B94%2011%202785859" value="+94112785859" target="_blank">+94 11 2785859</a>, </span><span style="color: blue;">iPhone Sri Lanka: <a href="tel:%2B94%20777740757" value="+94777740757" target="_blank">+94 777740757</a>,</span></span></span></p>
</div></div></blockquote></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> </span></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">NEW: Intensive Learning Workshop </span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">"Playing with the Waves of Change" </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><a href="http://www.change-facilitation.com/" target="_blank">www.change-facilitation.com/</a></span></p>
</div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">You want to have the design for a "Playing with the Waves (of Change) WS 2 completely taylor-made according to your individual learning interests & needs & limitations? Then go to the questionnaire at</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"><a href="http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/5ZDS6JQ" target="_blank">www.surveymonkey.com/s/5ZDS6JQ</a></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> </span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">If you get Email from my account <<a href="mailto:bernd.weber@change-facilitation.org" target="_blank">bernd.weber@change-facilitation.org</a>> please do not use the reply button but answer to <<a href="mailto:weberb@gmx.at" target="_blank">weberb@gmx.at</a>>, because my <a href="http://change-facilitation.org" target="_blank">change-facilitation.org</a> INBOX is not working for the time being.</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
OSList mailing list<br>
To post send emails to <a href="mailto:OSList@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a href="mailto:OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org">OSList-leave@lists.openspacetech.org</a><br>
To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:<br>
<a href="http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org" target="_blank">http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Seek first to understand, then be understood. Stephen Covey<br><br>Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted. Martin Luther King, Jr. <br><br><font style="color: rgb(46, 102, 197); font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" color="#2e66c5" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif" size="2"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);"></span></font><br>
<input type="hidden"><input type="hidden"><div></div><input type="hidden"><input type="hidden"><div></div><br>
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input onclick="if(typeof(jsCall)=='function'){jsCall();}else{setTimeout('jsCall()',500);}" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><div id="refHTML"></div>