justin -- glad to talk through it with you. ring anytime. and the $500 annually would go to l-soft (makers of "listserv" which powers the list. the set-up fee would be for initiating the new list and migrating all users and archives. the annual $500 covers dedicated hosting, list maintenance/upgrades, sort of stuff. <br>
<br>raffi -- one of the things i like about this particular solution is that we anchor one big archive with the 29000 messages we have, but we continue the conversation elsewhere, on a list called 'oslist' but also on any other regional lists, with the content from all of them hitting the central searchable archive. this means that where we have the conversation no longer matters. start a googlegroup. if we hate that then we can move someplace else, but wherever we go, we just keep forwarding a copy of everything to the archive. that way we're tied only to listserv. until we write our own listware, we're always going to be tied to somebody's product. so sticking with the ones that brought us this far would seem the best option. i don't see any reason to spend anything to convert our listserv (brand name) archive into google or yahoo or any other list platform, and just depend on a different company/platform. but this way, we only depend on l-soft for the archiving. the conversations can happen anywhere, starting and stopping in whatever ways they will.<br>
<br>thanks to everyone else who's said so far that they'd like to help with the funding end.<br><br>m<br clear="all"> <br>--<br><br>Michael Herman<br>Michael Herman Associates<br><br><a href="http://MichaelHerman.com">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
<a href="http://RonanParkTrail.com">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br><a href="http://ManorNeighbors.com">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br><a href="http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br>
<a href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br><br>312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 6:44 PM, Thomas Herrmann <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thomas@openspaceconsulting.com">thomas@openspaceconsulting.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="SV">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">I agree with all the thanks Michael – Txs for the work you’ve
done already!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Sound like a great proposal to me, even if I cannot make a technical
evaluation I trust you and others on the list to have that competence.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">I think the Swedish OSI might have some kronor to put into this
transition/maintenance. Let me know and I’ll put a proposal forward to our
board.<br>
Best regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US">Thomas</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Från:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> OSLIST
[mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] <b>För </b>Michael Herman<br>
<b>Skickat:</b> den 19 augusti 2010 19:38<br>
<b>Till:</b> <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br>
<b>Ämne:</b> the future of the oslist -- news and a proposal</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p><div><div></div><div class="h5">hello all, a bit of very important news and a proposal for
the future of the oslist.<br>
<br>
the oslist -- in it's current form -- will cease to exist within the next
year. i have been in contact with our boise state hosts and with the
makers of the software that drives our list and archives. i've developed
a bit of a work-around plan (working around paying the software company or
anyone else large sums of money annually to run the future of the list).
the softward company has confirmed for me that this (rather non-standard use of
their software) is indeed technically feasible. another nice thing about
it is that it makes the oslist structure look even more like what we do in open
space meetings. <br>
<br>
the oslist at boise state is done as of june 30th 2011, they are cancelling
their license and migrating all university groups to googlegroups. on
that date, oslist will disappear, unless we do something to move it. <br>
<br>
IF we can find another organization to host us as bsu has, then we can (pay
someone to) migrate our archive and user list and go on our merry way, subject
again to the whims of their IT department.<br>
<br>
IF, instead, we choose to fund our own implementation of the listserv (brand
name) software, we can migrate our archives and continue our conversation.<br>
<br>
ALTERNATIVELY, or more creatively... we can contract with l-soft directly to
set-up and maintain our archive, control that for ourselves going forward, AND
set it up in a way that would add to the archive going forward any postings
from any other email list, like germany, europe, australia, uk, etc.
what's more, this turns out to be the cheapest option, because we only need to
pay for listserv software for the archiving function, rather than for a
full-blown list that will deliver to 700 people at a cost of almost $2 for
EVERY message sent to the list (this assumes we would pay for the service
rather than license and run this for ourselves. harrison is fond of
saying that we have done all this without a marketing department. why add
an IT department now?) this is my suggestion.<br>
<br>
and this is what i'm proposing (offering) to do now:<br>
<br>
1. migrate all of our members to a new oslist at googlegroups (yes,
googlegroups. people who pay attention to such things seem to prefer the
functionality there and since our list is public anyway, there are no issues
with privacy and control of content. but we will also archive in two
other places, a gmail account AND a listserv system that will keep adding all
new posts to the old listserv archive.)<br>
<br>
2. migrate the archive (12 years, i think, and on our way to 29,000 messages)
to a new list that will have only one member account. <br>
<br>
3. make that one member account (<a href="mailto:oslist@gmail.com" target="_blank">oslist@gmail.com</a>,
for instance) a member of the new <a href="mailto:oslist@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">oslist@googlegroups.com</a>
AND any other lists around the world. THEN set that member account to
forward everything it receives to the migrated archive. so other lists
become like breakouts and the oslist archive a global community record wall of
what's happening.<br>
<br>
it this way, we achieve: <br>
<br>
1. a new, free, and durable oslist at googlegroups, with all the bells and
whistles there<br>
2. the survival of the 29,000-message archive in publicly-searchable
perpetuity, hosted by l-soft (makers of listserv software)<br>
3. the addition of all new oslist and other list postings to the central
archive<br>
<br>
what does it cost?<br>
<br>
1. continuing the oslist conversation in a new googlegroups oslist account
costs nothing.<br>
2. forwarding to the archive of all os community list mail from any list, costs
nothing<br>
3. migration of the oslist archive and setup of new archive list function costs
$500<br>
4. the cost of maintaining the archive would be $500 per year<br>
<br>
i'd expect that $500 is fundable through donations and could easily be handled
in the normal course of business and budgeting of the osi-usa. i assume
it's better to have a legal entity with a standing bank account take
responsibility for it, rather than an individual or loose group of
colleagues. but i'll leave it to osi-usa or another group to say they'll
take this on.<br>
<br>
i *think* that any other solution to this results in one or more of the
following... loss of the archives, costs that run to $3000 or $4000 annually
(and are totally variable based on list size), reliance on volunteer community
members to be our global IT department, additional cost of paying community
members to admin the system, reliance on the goodwill of some other
organization (which might be generous initially but could pull the plug with
less warning than we've been given now), no ability to archive many lists in
our one online record. <br>
<br>
i will check with boise state to confirm their support for our migration.
i'm told by l-soft that migrating the archive to a new location/list is pretty
simple stuff. <br>
<br>
i'm willing to implement this, but not fund it. i'd like at least four
others to sign on as stewards of the shift. more would be fine. and
i hope osi-usa will be the official steward for donations/funding matters.<br>
<br>
i don't have time right now to discuss this with 700 subscribers. i'm
just one guy, one list member. this is just my personal recommendation
and proposal. BUT... if there are concerns about any of this, i'm glad to
try to keep up with clarifying questions. <br>
<br>
if you think this is a good way to proceed, please say so. if you have
something to contribute to the process (time, attention, money, etc) please say
so. if you have concerns, let's hear them, too -- BUT if you think we
shouldn't do something in this proposal, then bring your own suggestions and
proposals for what we should do instead, making sure that the solution as
modified (or replaced) is still complete (technically, financially,
etc.). <br>
<br>
since we don't have anything to discuss about IF we should move or really even
WHEN we should move, the only question is HOW to preserve the archive and WHERE
to continue the main conversation. <br>
<br>
ideally, this would all happen when things quiet down a bit at the end of the
year, mid- to late-december. that's when i would be most able to support
these things. anyone else could do it sooner or later, but i do think
that distinguishing our two tasks, maintaining the archive AND continuing the
conversation, is a valuable way to think about this now.<br>
<br>
what can you contribute to this (new) beginning?<br>
<br>
m<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Michael Herman<br>
Michael Herman Associates<br>
<br>
<a href="http://MichaelHerman.com" target="_blank">http://MichaelHerman.com</a><br>
<a href="http://RonanParkTrail.com" target="_blank">http://RonanParkTrail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://ManorNeighbors.com" target="_blank">http://ManorNeighbors.com</a><br>
<a href="http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org" target="_blank">http://ChicagoConservationCorps.org</a><br>
<a href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.org" target="_blank">http://OpenSpaceWorld.org</a><br>
<br>
312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
<br>
<br></div></div><div class="im">
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