<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:times, serif;font-size:12pt;"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">Harrison and all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">If an issue is aired several times, the only
conclusion that I see that one can come to is that (1) <b>it addresses a
real concern of some people</b> and that (2) <b>it has not yet been
solved</b>. Maybe (3)<b> it has not yet been framed correctly</b>, or (4)
it has not been presented, framed and solved <b>in the correct space and
time</b>. Or maybe it is addressed by people out of a public list with public
Archives, in ways that are, or not, correct. (if they are not public, only the
insiders can know about that - if they can, as often people only see what their
assumptions allow them to see).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">That said, I have nothing against facilitators being
paid to Open Space - and paid not only (mainly) for the hours of the event, but
for the hours they really spent, from preparation to debriefing. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">And I also don't have anything neither against
training, nor about how much it costs. After all it is probably what the
"market" is prepared to pay... I would prefer that no one could not
attend a training if one cannot pay the fee, but the majority of us do that. I
would also prefer that to be a genuine gift and not a "loan" that
have to be repaid (with or without an interest), in money or in
"work" (but this is only a matter of ethics and that change over time
- after all to pay "loans" in work or in kind is what happened to all
the servants in the middle ages...). <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">The point is that: OST has became mainstream and apparently
anyone can say "I am doing (or training) Open Space Technology", even
if one does not know anything about it, or combines it with incompatible methods,
etc. That worries me, as the future of OST worries me. And not because I want
to compete on that market, but only for the sake of the truth and of the sake
of aesthetics - only for the "elegance" of the minimalist foundations
of OST...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">(By the way, I have also not anything against other
"facilitation methods", but I would prefer things not to be mixed.
Water, wine and oil are all liquids, but I don't think that mixing them to
create a good drink is useful, and would not like to see someone mixing
wine with water ant sell that as "pure wine". On the contrary, mixing
gin with martini maybe ok, for those that like that mixing... (I don't, as I
prefer red wine). But I would like that mixing to be made clear. From where I
stand, OSlist and WOSonOS are to discuss OST, and not to discuss "facilitation
methods in general". <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">To make some clarity on what I said in the previous
post, there are at least two different meanings of "certification":
one is what Universities and some companies do: "after the completion of
this education or training the student/trainee is prepared to do so and
so". The second one is something that, at least in my country, is not done
by Universities or training companies, but by professional bodies - organized
communities of practice of the practitioners of a certain profession or method.
They don't certify if someone is very skilled or not at all. They only certify
that he follows accepted practices. It was this second meaning that I was
looking for, but maybe this is not again the correct time and place.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">Indeed, I begin to wonder if this list is the appropriate
place to talk about that, or about many other things, as it seems to me that,
more and more, only what is "politically correct" is accepted and
there is no longer space for what seems "strange" or controversial.
When a community behaves like that, it begins dying, because it will never
learn and innovate anymore. Have you ever thought of many old timers that are
no longer contributing here, and the rate of replacement in this list? Many of
them are still active - where are they? Give it a thought.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;line-height:
normal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-US;
mso-fareast-language:PT">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><br></div><div>Artur </div><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"><br><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Harrison Owen <hhowen@verizon.net><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tue, May 25, 2010 9:12:45 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [OSLIST] OST training and "certification" - the role of OSIs? (was: Re: [OSLIST] Open Space Facilitation: Making it Work! 28-30 Sep 2010, Utrecht, The Netherlands<br></font><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Here we go again! Open Space
is and always has been free. Of course if you want to pay somebody to train you
in something that is yours by birthright, be my guest. That said, it can be
very useful to do something like Lisa provides, as also Michael P and others (myself
on occasion) – when a bunch of good folks collectively explore the wonderful
world of Open Space. I am not sure I would call that training – maybe co-learning
would be closer. However when it comes to “certification” I don’t have a clue
how you would do that. Certainly you can “certify that X participated in a
program”, but whether they have a clue what is going on – who can say? Frankly
when I hear the word “certify” my immediate association is with mental aberrations.
In American English, to say that “somebody is certifiable” means quite simply
that they are nuts. But that might just fit, you know. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;">J</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> And
certainly there was a time that if you said you were in Open Space people assumed
you were smoking a controlled substance or had just plain lost it. Ah, The good
old days!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Harrison </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Harrison Owen</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">7808 River Falls Dr.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Potomac, MD 20854</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">USA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;">Phone 301-365-2093</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.openspaceworld.com">www.openspaceworld.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.ho-image.com">www.ho-image.com</a> (Personal Website)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D;">To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
archives of <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu"><span style="color:blue;">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</span></a>:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"><span style="color:blue;">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Artur Silva<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> OST training and "certification" - the role of OSIs?
(was: Re: [OSLIST] Open Space Facilitation: Making it Work! 28-30 Sep 2010,
Utrecht, The Netherlands</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">Jack:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">This
is a critical problem, in these days.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">Was
OST a<b> gift</b> for all people that read the book (or not) and have
a "<b>good heart and a good mind</b>" and where training is an <b>additional
aid</b> for those that need that, or is it a business (or part of a
business) for "self empowered "trainers"? And what is a
"good heart"? And a "good mind"?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">Do
the organizers from Merlin (that btw are mostly scholars<span class="apple-style-span">, but you may became a member and have discounts for
a Standard Individual Membership per year of 59.95 eur) and the
facilitator of the course you mentioned have "a good heart" or an
"old days Kansas" one?</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">In
Berlin, I was surprised to see the <b>advertisement of a Program</b> (presented
as if it was a gift to the Access Queen") with a Certification Program
costing 3.800 US $, with a four days part on "Working with OST"
costing 650 US $. These prices are lower or greater the ones you mentioned? And
including OST combined with other methods is still the "free" and
"open" spirit of OST? Is it still OST?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">But
"certification" is often a requisite for grants in the EU and I think
elsewhere too. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">Who
(and how) can 'certify' that someone that presents oneself as an "OST
facilitator" is indeed using OST, and not mixing it with other methods
that "facilitate too much" (having, for instance, people presenting
themselves in groups of two, previously to the opening, or having
"reflections in pairs" before the closing, or guiding them through
the stages of Future Search in a so called OST meeting, to give only some
examples)?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">I
think that the Open Space Institutes around the world (and only OSIs, and not
other "facilitation organizations", that use OST as <b>one among
many different tools</b>, with many different epistemologies and values, frequently
mixing and confusing them in a single so called OST event) can have a saying in
relation to that.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">Something
that, IMHO, does that care about the future of OST must consider carefully...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color:black;">Artur</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">
<hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Jack Martin Leith
<jack@leithcocreation.com><br>
<b>To:</b> OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tue, May 25, 2010 9:11:56 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSLIST] Open Space Facilitation: Making it Work! 28-30 Sep
2010, Utrecht, The Netherlands</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My curiosity aroused by the announcement below, I visited <u><span style="color:#810081;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html">www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html</a></span></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Very interesting. An OS facilitator training led by ...
well, who, exactly?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">An OS facilitator training for, among others, professional
conference companies.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">An OS facilitator training that costs €795.00.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">An OS facilitator training that provides
participations with "a certificate awarded by the School of Advanced
Facilitation".</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ladies and gentlemen, 25 years down the track, we are not in
Kansas anymore!</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jack </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><br clear="all">
Jack Martin Leith<br>
Leith Co-creation<br>
email: <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jack@leithcocreation.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jack@leithcocreation.com">jack@leithcocreation.com</a><br>
Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)<br>
Skype: jackmartinleith<br>
Professional website: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.leithcocreation.com">www.leithcocreation.com</a><br>
Personal website: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.jackmartinleith.com">www.jackmartinleith.com</a><br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 24 May 2010 23:59, OST Training <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:events@merlien.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:events@merlien.org">events@merlien.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Open Space Facilitation: Making it work!<br>
How to design, plan and execute unconference meetings successfully<br>
28-30 September 2010, Utrecht<br><span>
Event website: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html">http://www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html</a></span><br>
<br>
About the workshop:<br>
The International Open Space Facilitator workshop, co-organised by the<br>
School of Advanced Facilitation (SAF) and Merlien Institute will be held on<br>
the 28-30 September 2010 in Utrecht, The Netherlands. Open Space offers your<br>
participants more than just talks, questions and poster sessions. It builds<br>
on the knowledge people bring to the event, harness their passion and give<br>
them the responsibility for discussing what really matters to them in a<br>
self-organising conference format. This workshop, conducted in English wiill<br>
equip you with the essential skills to design and execute an open space<br>
workshop or incorporate open space within your existing conference formats.<br>
<br>
Who should attend:<br>
This workshop is for meeting organisers and facilitators who will offer<br>
their participants the opportunity to tackle complex issues in a highly<br>
interactive, productive and self-structured "unconference"
environment. The<br>
workshop is designed with meeting organisers and facilitators in mind who<br>
work for government agencies, educational institutions, European programmes<br>
and projects, professional conference companies and industry associations.<br>
<br>
Take advantage of this unique opportunity to equip yourself with skills to<br>
design and execute successful open space events. This two and half days<br>
course includes refreshments and lunches. Early-Bird registration is now<br>
open! To register, please visit:<br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html">http://www.merlien.org/upcoming-events/osft2010.html</a><br>
<br>
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