<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Carol, I envy you too especially if you're in Fredericton, N.B. Canada? I lived and worked in Edmundston for nearly 20 years. The initiative sounds so cool. I am available by phone anytime if you want a sounding board. Suzanne now in Florida<p>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry</p><hr/><div><b>From: </b> "Steven \"Doc\" List" <doc@anotherthought.com>
</div><div><b>Date: </b>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 07:55:22 -0600</div><div><b>To: </b><OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU></div><div><b>Subject: </b>Re: A new topic and request</div><div><br/></div>My experience of larger groups is that it's just more of the same.<div><br></div><div>Arranging the room for the opening and closing is trickier - concentric circles if you can do it.</div><div><br></div><div>Creating the agenda takes longer, because there are more topics proposed.</div><div><br></div><div>You'll need at least one microphone, preferably two if you can arrange it - one for you, one for the people proposing their topics.</div><div><br></div><div>Beyond that, it's still self-organizing. The energy flow will be large - be prepared (if you can) for the excitement and conversation. There will be more butterflies and bumblebees, no doubt.</div><div><br></div><div>I envy you. I love large groups.</div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 45, 156); font-family: Geneva; font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(51, 45, 156); font-family: Geneva; font-size: 10px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>..Doc<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Geneva; font-size: 10px; "></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Geneva" size="2"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;"><br></span></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"></font></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><br><div><div>On Nov 29, 2009, at 6:02 AM, Carol Loughrey wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Hello all,<br><br>I have not participated in this list for a number of years but have been<br>contracted to facilitate an open space that is larger than I am accustomed<br>to - 300 to 500 people versus my usual 50 to 100. We are bringing together<br>business, government and non-profits in our community to look at the<br>question "How do we make Fredericton better." Although primarily<br>spearheaded by social groups the hope is to bring the three groups together<br>to find innovative and creative ways to improve our city and life for the<br>people in it. There is a lot of great energy in the organizing team.<br><br>Do any of you have any tips, suggestions, or advice re dealing with this<br>size of group?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Carol <br><br><br>On 29/11/09 7:30 AM, "Michael M Pannwitz" <<a href="mailto:mmpanne@boscop.org">mmpanne@boscop.org</a>> wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Dear Michael Dobbie,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">hope you have a great time in Australia and run into many of the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">os-workers there! Are you facilitating os-events there or do os-related<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">stuff? I remember<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Since I have always just simply participated in the oslist, the aspect<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of being invited never came to my mind. Maybe that contributes to what<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Harold (and many, as he states) perceives as "forbidding", fat guys like<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">me taking up the space.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The "roll call" in process did reveal to me that there are many on the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">list who are mostly in the "learning" mode (as in the Law: "I honor a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">group with my absence if I neither learn nor contribute. If I learn, I<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">stay, If I contribute, I stay. But if neither nor, I leave.")<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">By the way, I noticed that the email you used in your post varies from<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the one in your info box in the Open Space World Map...let me know if<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">you would like to have it adjusted).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Greetings from Berlin<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">mmp<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Michael Dobbie wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">hello all!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> just for the record (so my voice is somehow captured on this topic)...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> in all these years on the list (maybe 8 or 9 years now of mostly just<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">having to listen) i have not found this listserve and it's format to be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">welcoming to me (easy to use) in a way that "invites" me to contribute much<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">at all, <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> i look forward to moving this list along (away from this cumbersome,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">difficult to read boise listserve system) into something more ning-like (but<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">hopefully better),<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> thank you all for your efforts and looking forward to more conversation<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with you all, <br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> michael (here in australia for the next 3 months if you're nearby and<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">want to meet up somewhere)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://twitter.com/cuixote">http://twitter.com/cuixote</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:47:07 -0700<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: Harold Shinsato <<a href="mailto:harold@shinsato.com">harold@shinsato.com</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: re honouring each other<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Denise,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Just a quick note - "into deeper cyber realms" - is not what I would<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">think is the intent to improve things.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">When things are improved - it should be easier, lighter, more<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">transparent. YES!!!<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The "deeper cyber realms" sounds to me rather scary.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">For many - and myself as well - the OSList is actually a bit forbidding.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Not just technologically. I was scared to post for years.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> Harold<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:36:52 -0600<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: Michael Herman <<a href="mailto:michael@michaelherman.com">michael@michaelherman.com</a>><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: re honouring each other<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">....We have been here for a long time, and it is difficult to move into a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">new house.* WHY?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">murli nagasundaram is the guy who first invited us (here) to boise state,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and has been the nominal owner as far as the boise state list admin folks<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">are concerned. my earliest observation in this thread, about the oslist<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ownership, was just to point out that if boise state decided to change their<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">systems, we have no control at all over that. for now, we are just lucky<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that we have murli -- and also lucky that the admin guys like him/us well<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">enough that we've worked out an arrangement through which the admin guys<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">will to look after us, even if murli were to leave the uni.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">so none of us really owns the oslist, and for the last 13 years, it is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">working just fine. for who ????????????<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to paraphrase ralph, the space doesn't care who owns it. m<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote 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