Thx so much Michael, another nuance with enormous depth ie: self-organization is the process or it just <b>is</b> I guess... not even a process. The act of <b><i><span style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">opening space</span></i></b> in our lives so self-organization and individual/collective leadership can happen is what draws me so much. Now for my angst....well, that's a big one..and that will come with time. It's a giant step for me to learn to let go and not feel responsibile or inept. Don't know or understand the Weirds and perception? <br>
Smiles from sunny Florida!<br>Suzanne<br><br>Suzanne Daigle<br>
<a href="http://www.nufocusgroup.com/" target="_blank">www.nufocusgroup.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:s.daigle@nufocusgroup.com" target="_blank">s.daigle@nufocusgroup.com</a><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Michael M Pannwitz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mmpanne@boscop.org">mmpanne@boscop.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Dear Suzanne,<br>
you got it, the ownership is with the group where passion and responsibility reside.<br>
Its not in the process! I think.<br>
Unless you mean by process the forces of selforganisation (whatever that is, sometimes I smell it)...and thats with the group, too.<br>
So, knowing about the forces of selforganisation (they will be active regardless of what you trust in or believe in or hope for) calms me.<br>
And if you feel angst in the room, rest assured, its your angst and everything else are assumptions (to get further into this string, a good orientation is what the Weirds found out about perceptions).<br>
Now, having said all of this, I humbly invite you to include yourself in the Open Space World Map so everybody can "see" you.<br>
Regardless of where you are, Canada or Florida in the US.<br>
Here is the link<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<a href="http://www.openspaceworldmap.org/" target="_blank">http://www.openspaceworldmap.org/</a><br>
</blockquote>
And here is the direct link to the inclusion form<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<a href="http://www.michaelmpannwitz.de/index.php?id=198" target="_blank">http://www.michaelmpannwitz.de/index.php?id=198</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
and invite the rest of your bunch, too.<br>
Greetings from Berlin at tropical heats near midnight<br><font color="#888888">
mmp</font><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
Suzanne Daigle wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The gem for me was this: The issue is not “organization” – but who does it<br>
and when does it happen? I get it...I hope, I think. It means then that the<br>
ownership is where it should be: with the group from A to Z and they lead<br>
the dance of chaos and organization.<br>
<br>
Thank you for this topic on the grid which already has caused me grief and<br>
self-doubt when I facilitated. What I learn from this is that it won't<br>
matter exactly how I do the grid as long as I am mindful about what my true<br>
role is as a facilitator: to assist in the convening, to open the space,<br>
hold the space, (be invisible) and then close the space. It's so hard to<br>
trust the process sometimes when you're still internalizing it yourself,<br>
feeling the angst in a room and honoring what is.<br>
<br>
Suzanne<br>
<br>
Suzanne Daigle<br>
<a href="http://www.nufocusgroup.com" target="_blank">www.nufocusgroup.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:s.daigle@nufocusgroup.com" target="_blank">s.daigle@nufocusgroup.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Harrison Owen <<a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank">hhowen@verizon.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Artur – we will be looking forward to your return! And an odd thought<br>
passed through my muddled mind. It occurred to me, I think because you<br>
mentioned being an engineer that it might somehow appear that “getting<br>
organized” and “being organized” are somehow anathema to Open Space. It<br>
might even seem that I have implied as much – if so that would be a massive<br>
mistake on my part. The issue is not “organization” – but who does it and<br>
when does it happen? The truth of the matter is that every Open Space is<br>
highly organized, usually more so than any facilitator or planning committee<br>
could ever imagine.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Consider 2108 German psychiatrists X 236 concurrent sessions in an 8 hour<br>
period. That would take a planning committee years! And they would never get<br>
it right -- things would always be late, and great frustration would be a<br>
predictable outcome. In the instance, the people did it all themselves in<br>
something less than an hour and it all worked out perfectly including<br>
written reports for all or most of the sessions. Now Mr Engineer, Can you<br>
beat that? Just kidding J<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
For me the real issue is efficiency and effectiveness – which are<br>
presumably positive values that all engineers will ascribe to. In that case<br>
the only question is how do you get there fastest and bestest? The curious<br>
answer would seem to be Do Less!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Harrison<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Harrison Owen<br>
<br>
189 Beaucaire Ave<br>
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Camden, ME 04843<br>
<br>
207-763-3261 (Summer)<br>
<br>
301-365-2093 (Winter)<br>
<br>
Website <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com" target="_blank">www.openspaceworld.com</a><br>
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Personal Website <a href="http://www.ho-image.com" target="_blank">www.ho-image.com</a><br>
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OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
*From:* OSLIST [mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] *On Behalf Of *Artur<br>
Silva<br>
*Sent:* Friday, August 07, 2009 6:57 AM<br>
*To:* <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br>
*Subject:* Re: Why is a grid sometimes useful?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Being out of my office with bad internet contact and short of time, I only<br>
red some of this rich exchange.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I must say, like Bernd, that, probably because of my education as an<br>
engineer, I never thought about doing it without a grid. And living in a<br>
Chatolic country, even with a grid, most managers think that OST is too much<br>
for them...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
But then some coments from Harrison and Lisa make me think...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I will continue to think, and after the 18th, with better conexion, I will<br>
coment something.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
But don´t ask me what ;-)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards from the countryside somewhere in the north of Portugal<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Artur<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----------<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--- On *Thu, 8/6/09, Harrison Owen <<a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank">hhowen@verizon.net</a>>* wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Harrison Owen <<a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank">hhowen@verizon.net</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Why is a grid sometimes useful?<br>
To: <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br>
Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 5:17 AM<br>
<br>
Lesley, I think you got it! (“It is my sense of things that the more we<br>
order….the more we take away from the process……..however this can be very<br>
uncomfortable for us(facilitator”). It is all about organizing a self<br>
organizing system. Not only is that an oxymoron, but also of questionable<br>
intelligence – regardless of the alleged increase of comfort.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Harrison<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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-- <br></div></div><div class="im">
Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg<br>
Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany<br>
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