<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I've used the grid almost exclusively, working with a predominantly technical audience. At one OS, someone else facilitated when I wasn't available, and went gridless. The feedback I got was that the attendees missed the grid.<div><br></div><div>Which doesn't say that grid is better, just that it works well for this particular group.</div><div><br></div><div>Maybe I'll prep them the next time and go gridless with them.</div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 12px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; 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line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>..Doc<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Geneva; font-size: 10px; "></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Geneva; font-size: 10px; ">--</span></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Geneva; "><b>Steven "Doc" List, Principal Consultant, ThoughtWorks NA </b></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Geneva; "><i>Stage Producer, New to Agile stage, Agile2009 Conference (<a href="http://agile2009.agilealliance.org">http://agile2009.agilealliance.org</a>)</i></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Geneva; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><b>Mobile</b></span></font>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#32359C">+1 (512) 924-9248</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><b>Skype</b></span></font>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C">steven.list</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><b>Yahoo</b></span></font>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C">dadjester</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><b>Twitter</b></span></font>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C">athought</font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Geneva; "><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><b>Facebook</b></span></font>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C">athought</font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><b>LinkedIn</b></span></font>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenlist">www.linkedin.com/in/stevenlist</a></font><br><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><b>email</b></span></font>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"><a href="mailto:doc@thoughtworks.com">doc@thoughtworks.com</a></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"><a href="mailto:doc@anotherthought.com">doc@anotherthought.com</a></font><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>|<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Helvetica" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><b>web</b></span></font>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"><a href="http://www.thoughtworks.com">www.thoughtworks.com</a></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Geneva; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Geneva; ">Read about communication and facilitation on my blog:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"><a href="http://www.stevenlist.com/blog">http://www.stevenlist.com/blog</a></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Geneva; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"><br></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Geneva; "><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img height="72" width="38" src="cid:08EA9C1D-C93D-481E-9548-707FD8A23973"></span> </font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#332D9C"></font></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></span></span></span></div><br><div><div>On Aug 4, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Jack Martin Leith wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>I'd like to add a couple of points:</div> <div> </div> <div>1) Why have a "rule" about this? Different events call for different mechanics.</div> <div> </div> <div>2) From what I've seen, BarCamps have a grid and no Post-its.</div> <div> </div> <div>At the BarCamp I was part of, it never occurred to the organisers that they could add another column to the grid and thereby accommodate another bunch of sessions.</div> <div> </div> <div>Best wishes to all,</div> <div> </div> <div>Jack</div> <div><br clear="all">Jack Martin Leith<br>Bristol, United Kingdom<br>Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)<br>Skype: jackmartinleith<br>email: <a href="mailto:jack@jackmartinleith.com">jack@jackmartinleith.com</a><br><a href="http://www.jackmartinleith.com">www.jackmartinleith.com</a><br> <br><br></div> <div class="gmail_quote">2009/8/4 Larry Peterson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:larry@spiritedorg.com">larry@spiritedorg.com</a>></span><br> <blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">The only "grid" I use is the one I put the post-its on. I prefer the free<br>form posting of topics on the wall, and maybe some splitting of Day 1 and<br> Day 2. For me, the chaos at the wall is intentional and if its not there,<br>then the benefits of being at the "edge of chaos" are not achieved. People<br>have to use their intuition as well as logic when deciding what topic to<br> pursue. It is clearly not a traditional agenda.<br><br>Larry<br><font color="#888888"><br><br>Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation<br>Toronto, Ontario, Canada<br><a href="mailto:larry@spiritedorg.com">larry@spiritedorg.com</a> 416.653.4829 <a href="http://www.spiritedorg.com/" target="_blank">http://www.spiritedorg.com</a><br> </font> <div class="im"><br><br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: OSLIST [mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] On Behalf Of Jon Harvey<br>Sent: August-04-09 4:48 AM<br> To: <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br></div> <div> <div></div> <div class="h5">Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Why is a grid sometimes useful?<br><br>Erik<br><br>I have mostly created grids using making tape which certainly looks more<br>like a 'standard' agenda - rows for time slots and columns for places. That<br> is their main value I think...<br><br>However I have experienced several difficulties:<br><br>1) Merging and combining discussions becomes a bit constrained<br>2) You need a big wall - which is often not available<br>3) I was always left wondering why we had the post-it notes and the<br> scheduled box on the grid - as they duplicated each other - in effect.<br>4) If a balloon popped (or escaped - see by blog for a pic!<br><a href="http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/</a> ) all the sheets for that session<br> had to be moved.<br><br>So now I favour the freeform - but slightly organised - approach. I choose X<br>wall spaces (where X is the number of time slots) and ask people to post<br>their discussions there - attaching the appropriate sticky note (11.00ish<br> and balloon G). People can consult the wall space at any time and see laid<br>out, the various sessions that are happening at that time. This can apply to<br>new people also - if they helped, as need be, to understand what it all<br> means - which takes 10 seconds in my experience. Merging discussions is also<br>far easier with this method. It also does not give any spurious 'order' to<br>the ideas - because they are arranged higgledy-piggledy.<br> <br>For finding the discussions - I usually opt for large letter shaped balloons<br>suspended 2m from the floor. If you are sponsoring session D - you go and<br>get the D balloon and a flip chart and see who turns up. (see<br> <a href="http://www.classiccelebrations.com/images/categories/alphabetletteraballoonimage.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.classiccelebrations.com/images/categories/alphabetletteraballooni<br>mage.jpg</a> for an example)<br> <br>Hope this helps...<br><br>Very best wishes<br><br>Jon<br>___________________________________________________<br><br>Jon Harvey<br>Director<br><br><a href="http://www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk/" target="_blank">www.jonharveyassociates.co.uk</a><br> +44 (0) 7771 537535<br>+44 (0) 1280 822585<br><br><a href="mailto:jon@jonharveyassociates.co.uk">jon@jonharveyassociates.co.uk</a><br><br><br>Helping you connect the prose and the passion<br>to deliver superlative results<br> <br><a href="http://smallcreativeideas.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://smallcreativeideas.blogspot.com/</a> for ideas about how to improve<br>public services<br><a href="http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://jonharveyassociates.blogspot.com/</a> for articles, ideas & ramblings<br> linked to my consultancy<br><br>Jon Harvey Associates Ltd<br>Registered Office: Chandos House, School Lane, Buckingham, MK18 1HD<br>Company Number 6661588. VAT Registration Number 936 2921 11<br><br><br><br></div></div> <div class="im">-----Original Message-----<br>From: OSLIST [mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] On Behalf Of Erik<br>Fabian<br></div> <div class="im">Sent: 04 August 2009 05:08<br></div> <div class="im">To: <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br></div> <div> <div></div> <div class="h5">Subject: [OSLIST] Why is a grid sometimes useful?<br><br>Hello,<br><br>I have been thinking about the bulletin board and the debate that happened a<br>while back on this<br>list about whether a totally free collage of session postings is somehow<br> better than OS style events<br>that use a grid layout that notes time/locations.<br><br>I agree that the complete free flowing collage approach has an elegant<br>appeal but I have been<br>asking myself a different question...why do some OS style events even use a<br> grid?<br><br>I wonder how did the use of the grid evolve at these events? What is their<br>value?<br><br>I can only speculate on how these event evolved into using a grid (or if<br>that is how they started out<br>perhaps) but I have realize one advantage...they allow new participants to<br> easily to join in with an<br>event that is already in progress.<br><br>When someone shows up late to a public event and encounters a messy session<br>board it is hard,<br>without further explanation, for them to understand what is going on, where<br> it is happening, if it<br>is happening, and if so when.<br><br>The original OS literature I have read usually emphasizes that participants<br>are present start to<br>finish. There are many obvious benefits to this but the relevant one here is<br> that everyone is<br>present during the original board making. They have some sense of how it<br>evolved into whatever<br>mess that it becomes and how it changes as people go about the experience.<br><br>It makes sense if the original OS literature isn't accounting late arrivals<br> that it doesn't need<br>something like a grid to help late arrivals get oriented quickly.<br><br>Thoughts?<br><br>Cheerio,<br>Erik<br><br>*<br>*<br>==========================================================<br><a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br> ------------------------------<br>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<br>view the archives of <a href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</a>:<br><a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><br> <br>To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<br><a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" target="_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a><br><br>*<br>*<br>==========================================================<br> <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br>------------------------------<br>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<br>view the archives of <a href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</a>:<br> <a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><br><br>To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<br><a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" target="_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a><br> <br>*<br>*<br>==========================================================<br><a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br>------------------------------<br>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<br> view the archives of <a href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</a>:<br><a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a><br> <br>To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:<br><a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" target="_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br> * * ========================================================== OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu: <a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>*
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