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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Dear Ivana et all</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008><FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>I am based in the Netherlands and did a couple of
Open Space's the last seven years. Also for <SPAN
class=550194221-28102008>hyerarchical organisation's (for the Shared Service
Centre of the govenermental departments, for several local and several national
police-organizations, a waterbooard, for Fortis (which is a big Dutch-Belgium
Bank), an big insurrance company Just to name a few. In my experience there
is a lot of 'space' here in the Netherlands for Open Space!!
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=550194221-28102008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=550194221-28102008>Seems a good iedea to start
small, but then you boss is not very enthusiastic. So what I can tell that it
seems to me that here the bosses higher in hyerarchie are far more willing to
'take a risk' and try something different. So can you find a way to talk with
somebody who shares your passion for the subject and is higher in hyerarchie??
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=550194221-28102008>If I can be of any help,
please let me know. </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=550194221-28102008>tel: 0031653927407 or <A
href="mailto:cvl@tg.nl">cvl@tg.nl</A></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=550194221-28102008></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=550194221-28102008><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=550194221-28102008>warm regards
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ivana
Balazevic-Fisher<BR><B>Sent:</B> dinsdag 28 oktober 2008 16:05<BR><B>To:</B>
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: OST in
Amsterdam<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>HI all</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>I work as an "external" and have no people working "under me".</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Have spoken to my immediate manager and tried to plant the seed, but his
response was that you cannot do that kind of thing in a hyerarchical
organisation as this one, it would never work, people would never talk to each
other, we still don't know the extent of our problems therefore we cannot yet
make a plan. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>My response to all of those arguments is: perfect. We need to do Open
Space. His response was: no, no... we can't do that. We first have
to have direction and plan, then we can think of doing something like
that. </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>My response was... no, no, no... now is the perfect time, precisely because
nobody knows how to start, nobody can make a good plan, etc... </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Anyway, I didn't convinvce him yet. But I want to. I need to
find somebody who has done it in ING Amsterdam (or Holalnd) and who is prepared
to talk about it to my boss. Please scour your networks and put us all in
touch with those who have already done it or are doing it in a hyerarchical
set-up and are available for a chat in Amsterdam... </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Ivana</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT><BR><BR><B><I>Henri Lipmanowicz
<henri.lipmanowicz@verizon.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Ivana,
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Are you inside the organization or are you an outside consultant?</DIV>
<DIV>If you are inside in what position or role are you?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>You write that you are working on a project; is there at least one
opportunity for you to use OST on the smallest scale so that management
doesn't need to make any decision? You just do it and people start
experiencing OST. The point is to focus on what is the immediate first step
that is possible with the resources at hand. One experience however little
will be more effective than a million presentations. Then see what happens and
figure out the second step. <BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 18px 'Comic Sans MS'; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 18px 'Comic Sans MS'; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space"><SPAN
class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 18px 'Comic Sans MS'; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space">
<DIV><BR>Henri </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#0d21ff> On
n'entend bien qu'avec le coeur</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span color=#0d21ff>
L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR></DIV></SPAN><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV></SPAN><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV></SPAN><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Oct 28, 2008, at 4:57 AM, Ivana Balazevic-Fisher wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>HI all</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I wonder if anybody has heard that the OST was done in ING Amsterdam,
or ING in the rest of Netherlands. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am working on a project which is crying out for some open space,
crisis after crisis happens, and they never get "resoved" but just
white-washed only to reappear in similar disguise 3 months on. People
get recruited, 3 months later they get sacked because of crisis, then they
get recruited again etc... See-saw if ever I saw one. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This calls for some grass-root action, lots of open space for anybody
who cares. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But - how to sell it to management? The mindsets are as they are,
things have "always been done this way", nobody even thinks that grass roots
could be consulted..... Therefore, looking for somebody who has done it in
ING already, or done it in Amsterdam, who could give me one or two hints as
to how to sell this upwards from the ground level, to managers who (most
probably) would not believe that a thing like that could happen ever,
anywhere. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thoughts?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thank you</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ivana </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR> </DIV>
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