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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Omitting mention of the 4 Principles
certainly can be done, but I am not sure that would change things in any
substantial way. The reason being that the Principles are descriptive as
opposed to prescriptive. In short, they will happen anyway, mentioned or not.
However, one might reasonably ask – why state the obvious? My reason has
always been that keeping the principles in mind seems to ease the way in Open
Space.</span></font></p>

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12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>

<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Harrison</span></font></p>

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12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>

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<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
 style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Harrison Owen</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>7808 River Falls Drive</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Potomac,
Maryland   20854</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Phone </span></font><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
 color:red'>301-365-2093</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Skype hhowen</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Open Space Training</span></font><font
color=red><span style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com/"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.com</span></font></a>
</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Open Space Institute</span></font><font
color=red><span style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.org</span></font></a></span></font></p>

<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Personal website</span></font><font
color=red><span style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.ho-image.com/"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.ho-image.com</span></font></a> </span></font></p>

<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
 style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>OSLIST</span></font><font
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:red'>: To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit: </span></font><font
color=red><span style='color:red'><a
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'>www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></font></a></span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Jack Martin Leith<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, May 04, 2008 8:16 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Open Space 2.0 -
Beyond the Dogma</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hiya Tree.</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks for your thoughts on my <Open Space 2.0 -
Beyond the Dogma> post.</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Has OS become arthritic? And are certain Open
Space practitioners becoming dogmatic?</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Here in the UK the answer is "yes".</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I've been to two gatherings of OS practitioners, both
held in London (I was the co-creator of the first one) and anyone
wandering in from the street would probably have thought they were
witnessing a meeting of a religious group or a cult.</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>At the second of these gatherings, structured along
"Open Space on Open Space" lines, Paul Levy led a session that
challenged the four principles of Open Space, and was shot down in flames by a
number of people.</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>And a year ago he advertised, on this very email
list, a workshop with a similar theme to the one he and I are running in
Brighton next week, and received from a prominent OS practitioner what ca bes
be described as hate mail.</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks for your invitation to share more of my
thoughts. You can find plenty of them here <a
href="http://www.jackmartinleith.com/?p=191">www.jackmartinleith.com/?p=191</a>
and here <a href="http://www.jackmartinleith.com/?p=192">www.jackmartinleith.com/?p=192</a>,
along with some thoughts expressed by people beyond this list. The purpose of
the 14 May workshop is to discover what other people think.</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>My aim (I can't speak for Paul) is not for
'better' space at meetings, but for a process which is most likely to deliver
the desired results. Which results? Those that will generate as much value as
possible for as many parts of the stakeholder system as possible. I don't
see myself as a process facilitator, but rather as a results facilitator. As in
midwifery, a healthy mother and baby are the first priority. The process has to
serve the results. My personal preference is for natural methods, but I keep
forceps in my back pocket and a scalpel in a glass box, for emergency use only.</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>If you'd like to take part in the discussion through
Skype, the user name is <rationalmadness> and the timing is 1400 to 1600
British Summer Time, which is one hour ahead of GMT.</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Best wishes,</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jack</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jack Martin Leith<br>
Bristol, United Kingdom<br>
Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)<br>
Skype: jackmartinleith<br>
Facebook: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725422325">www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725422325</a><br>
Facebook group on Open Space Technology: <a
href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7189220743">www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7189220743</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackmartinleith">www.linkedin.com/in/jackmartinleith</a><br>
email: <a href="mailto:jack@jackmartinleith.com">jack@jackmartinleith.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.jackmartinleith.com">www.jackmartinleith.com</a> </span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
 </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>2008/5/4 Tree Fitzpatrick <<a
href="mailto:therese.fitzpatrick@gmail.com">therese.fitzpatrick@gmail.com</a>>:</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 6:01 AM, Jack Martin Leith
<<a href="mailto:jack@jackmartinleith.com" target="_blank">jack@jackmartinleith.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hiya Harrison.</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Happy that you're not offended by our undertaking!</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Maybe it's different on your side of the pond, but
Paul and I have both, separately, noticed the worrying extent to which OS
certainly has become a dogma over here, sometimes along with the words
"Harrison Owen" says. (I must put my hand up to having done that many
times.) We both feel that OS has become somewhat arthritic, and overdue for a
rethink.</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Open Space Technology is what it is.  Right?  How can it become
arthritic?  I am challenged by your suggestion but I hope you don't
perceive that I am challenging you.  I am genuinely puzzled.  I would
welcome more of you thoughts, perhaps some examples of how OS is changing?<br>
<br>
How can OS 'become' anything?  It is what it is.<br>
<br>
I am wondering if, when you suggest that it is due for a 'rethink', perhaps you
are seeing something else, or striving to see something else. Perhaps you have
a (inchoate?) yearning for, please forgive me, 'better' space at meetings.<br>
<br>
I don't have Harrison's depth of experience opening sepace, but I
wholeheartedly agree with what he says about 'second generation open
space'.  When in doubt, open more space and if opening more space brings
me to a place of doing nothing, well, for me, then I know I'm doing it right.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
 </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>What you say is perfectly true, and I agree
wholeheartedly ... although I'm personaly keen on conversation that
precipitates action ... but all too often it's very different on the ground.</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Big thanks for your support and encouragement. We'll
keep you posted. Steve the Doc has already signed up for the Skype option.</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Very best,</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jack</span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Jack
Martin Leith<br>
Bristol, United Kingdom<br>
Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)<br>
Skype: jackmartinleith<br>
Facebook: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725422325"
target="_blank">www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725422325</a><br>
Facebook group on Open Space Technology: <a
href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7189220743" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7189220743</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackmartinleith" target="_blank">www.linkedin.com/in/jackmartinleith</a><br>
email: <a href="mailto:jack@jackmartinleith.com" target="_blank">jack@jackmartinleith.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.jackmartinleith.com/" target="_blank">www.jackmartinleith.com</a>
</span></font></p>

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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>2008/4/30 Harrison Owen <<a
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank">hhowen@verizon.net</a>>: </span></font></p>

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style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

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<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Sounds like a marvelous
under taking, but I am not sure about all this "Dogma" business.
Dogma in my lexicon is a whole bunch of stuff that you have to do/believe. My
experience with OST is that it is all about thinking of one more thing NOT to
do – or believe. The end of the line, or indeed the next iteration, would
involve doing nothing at all, and where "belief" translated into pure
experience. You were just "there" in that present moment being fully
what you (we) already were – full, conscious, passionate, responsible
human beings. My experience with most of the 2<sup>nd</sup> Generation Open
Spaces is that they seem to involve more and different doing and believing. To
my eyes this seems to be going in the wrong direction. But what do I
know?  Have fun!!</span></font></p>

<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>

<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Harrison</span></font></p>

<p style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>

<div>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Harrison Owen</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>7808 River Falls Drive</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Potomac, Maryland   20854</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Phone 301-365-2093</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Skype hhowen</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Open Space Training</span></font><font color=red><span
style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com/" target="_blank"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.com</span></font></a>
</span></font></p>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Open Space Institute</span></font><font color=red><span
style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/" target="_blank"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.org</span></font></a></span></font></p>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Personal website</span></font><font color=red><span
style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.ho-image.com/" target="_blank"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.ho-image.com</span></font></a> </span></font></p>

<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
archives Visit: </span></font><font color=red><span style='color:red'><a
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target="_blank"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></font></a></span></font></p>

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<br>
-- <br>
Love rays,<br>
Tree Fitzpatrick<br>
<br>
<a href="http://thecultureoflove.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">http://thecultureoflove.blogspot.com/</a><br>
<br>
. . . the great and incalculable grace of love, which says, with Augustine,
"I want you to be," without being able to give any particular reason
for such supreme and unsurpassable affirmation. -- Hannah Arendt<br>
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