hallo jack, interesting question...<br><br>for me, the dogma comes mainly from outside, not within the community. dogma like "people won't come if there's not a big name keynoter" or "people need warm-up icebreakers" or "we could never do more than a half-day (...on the future/survival of the organization!" ...or some such) or "everybody needs to hear everything" or even... "there's always a way to improve something and so we're going to mess with this world-renown process before we've actually tried it even once." how about "oh, yes, there's already a committee that's supposed to be handling that (really big question) (never mind that nobody can remember the last time they met) so we need to focus on just this (small question) for this (short) meeting. <br>
<br>if there is an ost 'establishment,' this list must be it. and here i see regular inventions and experiments and also the occasional diving into the question of what's essential ost. i've said for years now, in the process of adapting ost to all kinds of (hostile, to the standard model) environments, that it's most important to do the practice and notice for oneself those things that seem essential. invitation, circle, marketplace, breathing or what i usually generalize to 'pulsation', bulletin board. lots of different ways to create these same mechanisms. embedded in these things are voluntary self-selection, real purpose, responsibility, documentation, and some other things we've discussed here for years.<br>
<br>personally, i'm not as interested in discussion aimed at nixing 'dogma' that might get in the way here or there as i am in understanding through direct experience the barest essence of what actually does work, so that i can be smarter still about what not to do... and what NOT not to do... and more importantly, how TO DO those things that some situations demand, in ways that are most consistent with the essence of what we're up to with ost.<br>
<br>have a good chat and i hope you'll bring the notes back to post here. i'm sure there are corners of the world where dogma is getting in the way of opening space... ost dogma perhaps, and lots of other dogma, too!<br>
<br>cheers, m<br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 8:01 AM, Jack Martin Leith <<a href="mailto:jack@jackmartinleith.com">jack@jackmartinleith.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Hiya Harrison.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Happy that you're not offended by our undertaking!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Maybe it's different on your side of the pond, but Paul and I have both, separately, noticed the worrying extent to which OS certainly has become a dogma over here, sometimes along with the words "Harrison Owen" says. (I must put my hand up to having done that many times.) We both feel that OS has become somewhat arthritic, and overdue for a rethink.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What you say is perfectly true, and I agree wholeheartedly ... although I'm personaly keen on conversation that precipitates action ... but all too often it's very different on the ground.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Big thanks for your support and encouragement. We'll keep you posted. Steve the Doc has already signed up for the Skype option.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Very best,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Jack</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Jack Martin Leith<br>Bristol, United Kingdom<br>Mobile: 07831 840541 (+44 7831 840541)<br>Skype: jackmartinleith<br>Facebook: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725422325" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=725422325</a><br>
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email: <a href="mailto:jack@jackmartinleith.com" target="_blank">jack@jackmartinleith.com</a><br><a href="http://www.jackmartinleith.com" target="_blank">www.jackmartinleith.com</a> <br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2008/4/30 Harrison Owen <<a href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank">hhowen@verizon.net</a>>:<div class="Ih2E3d"><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">Sounds like a marvelous under taking, but I am not sure about all this "Dogma" business. Dogma in my lexicon is a whole bunch of stuff that you have to do/believe. My experience with OST is that it is all about thinking of one more thing NOT to do – or believe. The end of the line, or indeed the next iteration, would involve doing nothing at all, and where "belief" translated into pure experience. You were just "there" in that present moment being fully what you (we) already were – full, conscious, passionate, responsible human beings. My experience with most of the 2<sup>nd</sup> Generation Open Spaces is that they seem to involve more and different doing and believing. To my eyes this seems to be going in the wrong direction. But what do I know? Have fun!!</span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">Harrison</span></font></p>
<p><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">Harrison Owen</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">7808 River Falls Drive</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">Potomac, Maryland 20854</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">Phone </span></font><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">301-365-2093</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">Skype hhowen</span></font></p>
<p style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: red; font-family: Arial;">Open Space Training</span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com/" target="_blank"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.openspaceworld.com</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
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