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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>OK – The Great Spirit of </span></font><font
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:red'>OSLIST</span></font><font
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:red'> called my
bluff. My two messages (one sent more than 24 hours ago) showed up
simultaneously. Anybody who thinks this computer system is just a “dumb
thing” has got to change their view. </span></font><font color=red
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:red'>OSLIST</span></font><font
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:red'> has a real
weird sense of humor!</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Harrison</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Harrison Owen</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>7808 River Falls Drive</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Potomac,
Maryland 20854</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Phone </span></font><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>301-365-2093</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Skype hhowen</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Open Space Training</span></font><font
color=red><span style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com/"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.com</span></font></a>
</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Open Space Institute</span></font><font
color=red><span style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.org</span></font></a></span></font></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Personal website</span></font><font
color=red><span style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.ho-image.com/"><font
face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial'>www.ho-image.com</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>OSLIST</span></font><font
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-family:Arial;color:red'>: To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit: </span></font><font
color=red><span style='color:red'><a
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'>www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></font></a></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Harrison Owen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 22, 2008
6:30 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Philosophical
Question</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>I tried to join this
discussion from a friend’s computer – and apparently I could not
get through. But anyhow! </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>My
“translation” of Stuart Kauffman was – “A relatively
safe nutrient environment.” I say “translation” because often
Kauffman is hard to pin down. In fact he never actually lists the essential
preconditions for self-organization. You have to wander through the text and
pick them out for yourself. I have done that on multiple occasions and I think
I have it right. My confidence level is increased by the fact that some of his
colleagues who have read my stuff agree. But what can I say? </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>But in terms of my
statement -- (“A relatively safe nutrient environment.”), it is not
really about food as such. Maybe “supportive” would have been more
accurate. But my point is that you have to have the necessary stuff available
before anything useful could happen. In the case of an Open Space you need the
requisite number of people who care, and whose “caring” is informed
by some degree of knowledge. In short they have to know more or less what they
are talking about. But the real issue is “relative safety.” Some
people have talked about the sort of space created in an Open Space as
“safe space” – a space where ideas, hopes and dreams may be
shared even if they are unpopular, not phrased in the most felicitous fashion,
or just clumsy. But the space can’t be “too safe” or there
will be no sense of expectation and urgency. A sense of risk does seem to
sharpen the mind and enhance the quality of conversation. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Harrison</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Harrison Owen</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>7808 River Falls Drive</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Potomac, Maryland 20854</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Phone 301-365-2093</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=2
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Skype hhowen</span></font></p>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Open Space Training</span></font><font color=red><span
style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com/"><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.com</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Open Space Institute</span></font><font color=red><span
style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/"><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.org</span></font></a></span></font></p>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>Personal website</span></font><font color=red><span
style='color:red'> <a href="http://www.ho-image.com/"><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'>www.ho-image.com</span></font></a> </span></font></p>
<p align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font size=3
color=red face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
archives Visit: </span></font><font color=red><span style='color:red'><a
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"><font face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial'>www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></font></a></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=red face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Martin Boroson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Sunday, January 20, 2008
11:24 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Philosophical Question</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'>Dear all:</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'>I have a couple
of philosophical questions about the concept of a “stable nutrient
environment.” According to Stuart Kauffman, as quoted by Harrison,
this is Condition #1 for self-organization.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'>My questions:</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'>a. What
does this mean scientifically? Presumably Kauffman is talking primarily
about biological systems, as he is a biologist. Does he mean sufficient
food supply? That would make sense – you need sufficient food in
order to do anything -- but on the other hand, fundamental environmental
challenges to a system (such as lack of food supply) are surely one of the
perturbations that can induce a re-organization. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'>b.
I’m also curious to know how each of you would interpret “stable
nutrient environment” in terms of organizational change. What would
be the “stable nutrient environment” required? Abundant
coffee and cake at your conference? Lifetime job security for all the
organization’s employees? Or something in between?</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'><br>
;)</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'>Namaste </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><font size=3 face="Book Antiqua"><span
lang=EN-GB style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua"'>Marty</span></font></p>
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