Tree...just for some clarification about what I know of Kaliya's work...<br><br>When the tech community first discovered "unconferencing" in about 2002 or 2003, several of us piped up about using Open Space Technology to run conferences. For as long as I can remember Harrison has been saying things like "Open Space is the internet in real life" so when techies discovered OST, I thought "What took you guys so long?"
<br><br>An interesting thing happened in the tech world around unconferencing. The way I understand it, several people tried to use OST and they were rebuffed by conference organizers who were keen to jump on the new wave, but not so keen to actually try an OS.
<br><br>From what I know of Kaliya (and Deborah Hartmann, and there may be others), she has taken up the challenge full bore of helping the tech community really discover the power of Open Space, by helping them really use it. She has written extensively about why one shouldn't mess with the process - why the integrity of the proces is important, and what people miss when they start messing with the process. I am also aware that Kaliya has tried to clarify what Open Space is with people who were doing some kind of hybrid unconferencing but calling it open space.
<br><br>So, in short, I personally have a great interest in Kaliya's experience, because she is on the edge of addressing these questions in a big and active community that talks al ot to each other. How she has dealt with luminaries, used elements of OST and seen the process mashed and bent should be in a book somewhere. And I have let her know on several occasions how much I have appreciated her stand for clarity about what OST is and what it isn't.
<br><br>Anyway I just thought I add that for clarity, and I guess as kind of a public appreciation for Kaliya's work. Tree, I think your questions are good ones for people like Dave Winer, an influential unconferencer (Google him) and many others who almost get it but not quite.
<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Chris<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/22/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Peggy Holman</b> <<a href="mailto:peggy@opencirclecompany.com">peggy@opencirclecompany.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div>Hi Tree,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Many thanks for your questions.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>About luminaries:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Kaliya defined luminaries well earlier:</div>
<div>
<div>They are just more 'famous' then the other people there - they are normally
keynoters, or at the very panalists regularly at a certain circuit of
events. They can also be 'internet famous' or just someone respected in
their field. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>They are easy to spot because they are "known". </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>To your other questions about whether something was lost because a few "big
names" were unhappy. Overall, I'd say the event was very successful,
having done its work well. My question is more one of whether there
is an opportunity to bring some gifts present if people who are used to special
treatment get what they need to come play. Perhaps it is a variant on
Kaliya's wisdom of meeting people where they are at culturally. I start
with the assumption that there were some gifts that could have come present and
didn't. What might those of us hosting or opening space do to invite
those gifts forward? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Interestingly, one of Stephen and my journalism partners expressed the
thought that some of the unhappiness may be that there is a shift happening
and the luminaries will have to figure out how to fit in or get left
behind. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>appreciating the discussion,</div>
<div>Peggy</div>
<div> </div></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><span class="q">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="therese.fitzpatrick@gmail.com" href="mailto:therese.fitzpatrick@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Tree Fitzpatrick</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
</div></span><div><span class="e" id="q_1148f47225f06114_2">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:44
AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OSLIST] FW: The challenge
of "luminaries"</div>
<div><br></div>Hi Peggy. Thanks for stimulating such a nice
discussion.<br><br>In your initial post, Peggy, you said that you were
thinking that perhaps, in the future, you might talk to luminaries before
hand. I am curious: did the luminary who said they were unhappy
with the 'new-age' circle and the questions that seemed to be about nothing,
well, did this luminary identify him/herself to you in advance as special, as
a luminary who merited special attention? How would you know who to give
this special treatment to, in advance?. . . . <br><br>I am sitting with other
questions.<br><br>Is there some insights anyone can share related to what it
might mean if someone sees a gathering of his/her peers, someone is attracted
to an event because the topic and the reputation of the spaceholders has
beckoned them and then these individuals don't quick click with the
event? Must an event please all the people all the time? Must
luminaries always be left happy? Does it say something about the success or
failure of an event if one, two, several participants chose to not enter open
space? We can't please all of the people all of the time. Should
OS please all of the people all of the time? Is there something about
the adaptive energy of those who who up at a gathering of their professional
peers, talking about the future of their profession, and these people aren't
interested in being in open space, to listening with open space hearts and
minds? Maybe there is a larger arc at play here, Peggy. Maybe these
luminaries are not in sync with some central energy underlying the invitation,
the questions, the conversations? Maybe the luminaries didn't fit in
because they didn't fit in. <br><br>I know there is lots of wisdom in
luminaries and sometimes I want to benefit from their wisdom even if I am
frustrated that they approach their ego in old paradigm kind of ways. And
sometimes, well, sometimes they didn't blend in because, well, they didn't
blend in. <br><br>I have been redundant.<br><br>I am wondering, Peggy, how you
feel about the OS media event? Do you feel something important was lost
because your luminary felt disengaged? I invite you to think carefully,
both about the event and the field you and Stephen are leading in your inquiry
around journalism. Somehow, I find myself thinking, wishing-to-believe?,
that the field was served just exactly right by the event, and part of the
perfection was in what happened to that luminary. <br><br>Maybe it is too late
and I am babbling and not saying anything?<br><br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/19/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Peggy
Holman</b> <<a href="mailto:peggy@opencirclecompany.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">peggy@opencirclecompany.com </a>>
wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US">
<div>Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I do think the personal
touch, from someone, matters. That's what I took from Ralph and
Deborah's stories. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>BTW, there was a facebook for the event. The roster is here: <a href="http://www.mediagiraffe.org/wiki/index.php/Jtm-dc-roster" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.mediagiraffe.org/wiki/index.php/Jtm-dc-roster
</a>;
participants got bios and pictures in advance. I've been doing that
with quite a few events and it does a great job of giving people a heads up
on who is in the room.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>appreciatively,</div><span>
<div>Peggy</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div></span>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><span>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;">----- Original
Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="hhowen@verizon.net" href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Harrison Owen</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>To:</b> <a title="OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a> </div></span>
<div><span>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday,
August 19, 2007 8:08 AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none;"><b>Subject:</b>
[OSLIST] FW: The challenge of "luminaries"</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Deborah – I think
your idea of a "facebook" sent out in advance is a great one. And it would
avoid doing a "round the circle" at the beginning, which I personally find
less than useful for two reasons. First it delays the actual start when
people go to work – and this is the most important consideration for me.
Secondly, all those names and needs/wants/desires badly confuses this old
mind. After the first two or three I just hit "overload." For our up
coming OSONOS by the Sea I sent out a full participant list and invited
people to add whatever information/requests they might want. Some people
chose to remain a mystery (great!) and others wrote a whole bunch. How
much of this actually gets read I don't know, but a number of folks said
it was useful and fun. Since email addresses were also included, the party
started early, which was wonderful.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">I am a little
less enthusiastic about special guided tours done by the facilitator –
though it is certainly a nice idea. I find one of the great things about
an Open Space is the speed with which new comers are included – some of
this just happens on its own, and in other cases participants will notice
a stranger looking a little lost and take them under their wing. I really
like that as it serves to build and bond the community. If the lost guest
is "important" having some "just plain folk" do the job can be wonderful.
And who knows a useful connection could be made. At most I (as the
facilitator) might suggest to one of the "older" participants that "so and
so" looks a little lost – maybe you could take them on a tour – sort of
thing. That way I can hold the space and members of the community take
active responsibility for the inclusion. Win/Win – I
think.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Harrison</span></font><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">
</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p><b><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</span></font></b><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: windowtext; font-family: Tahoma;">
OSLIST
[mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">OSLIST@</a><a href="http://LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Deborah
Hartmann<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday,
August 19, 2007 10:34 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> OSLIST@<a href="http://LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: The challenge of
"luminaries"</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: windowtext;"></span></font></p></div>
<p><font color="#333399" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="#333399" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hello Kerry:<br><br>> address their presence
during the introduction<br><br>I hesitate to address the presence of
particular people during the introduction. I see it as a "democratizing
circle" and as such, I strive to communicate the message that we are all
equals, and so we are equally responsible for our experience of the event.
No matter whether we specify that "luminaries" are equal to everyone else,
we's negate this by simply naming them and not everyone
else!<br><br>Here's an idea: Something that emerged at RoCoCo was a round
of "needs and offers", though it happened too late, in the opinion of
many. We went around the circle stating what we needed (ideas,
collaborators, hardware, software) and our offers (some offered skills,
resources, collaborative sites, and others answered just-stated needs, ex:
"I have an old computer like that, let's talk"). This would allow
luminaries to introduce themselves, equally with others, allow them (if
they choose) to align themselves as members of this OST event's "people".
I think attendance at this activity would need to be voluntary, as it
takes some time and perhaps people would rather network informally. This
would have been useful to us, as we had decided not to call out any
particular participants in the opening.<br><br>I'm not sure where this
fits... we thought that if we'd done this at the start, people would have
had an idea of who was there and how they could help them. Ex: If I'd know
people from the citizen journalism movement were present, I would have
posted a session: how is Citizen Journalism changing the face of news? But
as it was, I only discovered their presence afterwards. <br><br>Ideas:
Perhaps, do it as part of a social the prior evening, before we open the
space? Another idea was a "needs and offers" wiki page or wall - the
problem being that using the wall for this removes the human face from the
transaction. We could encourage people to do this at registration, so we
could browse the list of who's coming and their needs/offers (sometimes
this happens with BarCamps). Hey, could a facebook group be used for
this?!! This activity would have been particularly useful for our type of
OST - it was not so much a "themed" event as a "community gathering" event
- a particular flavour of OST I'm seeing a lot in the Tech community now.
"The right people" are the ones who want to be part of the community, in
general - and it's often a big surprise what interests and skills they
bring! It's as if a "community gathering" OST is simply a coalescence at a
particular time/place of a continual OST event which is the community
itself.<br><br>deb<br><br>kerry napuk wrote: </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font color="#333399" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Peggy <br><br>When faced with
"luminaries," experts, speakers et al, maybe it would help to address
their presence during the introduction. A facilitator could note
their valued participation and opportunity to be on equal terms with an
audience, experiencing the need to discuss and exchange views rather than
be lectured at. <br><br>It might even be fun! <br><br>Cheers <br><br>Kerry
<br>Edinburgh <br><a href="http://www.openfutures.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">www.openfutures.com</a>
<br><br>* <br>*
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font color="#333399" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
-- </span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Deborah Hartmann
<br></span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Agile Process Coach</span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="http://deborah.hartmann.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">deborah.hartmann.net</a></span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
mobile: <span onmouseup="SetCallButtonPressed(this, 0,0)" onmousedown="SetCallButtonPressed(this, 1,0)" onmouseover="SetCallButton(this, 1,0);skype_active=CheckCallButton(this);" onmouseout="SetCallButton(this, 0,0);HideSkypeMenu();" class="skype_tb_injection" id="__skype_highlight_id">
<span title="Change country code ..." onclick="javascript:if(1){doRunCMD(event, 'chdial','5');}else{doRunCMD(event, 'call','+14169964337');}event.preventBubble();return false;" onmouseout="SetCallButtonPart(this, 0);" onmouseover="SetCallButtonPart(this, 1);" class="skype_tb_injection_left" id="__skype_highlight_id_left">
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<img src="chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; height: 1px; width: 1px;" class="skype_tb_img_space" height="1" width="1"><img src="chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; height: 1px; width: 1px;" class="skype_tb_img_space" height="1" width="1">
<img src="chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/space.gif" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; height: 1px; width: 1px;" class="skype_tb_img_space" height="1" width="1">416 996 4337</span><span style="background-image: url(chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/cb_normal_r.gif);" class="skype_tb_injection_left_img" id="__skype_highlight_id_right_adge">
<img src="chrome://skype_ff_toolbar_win/content/cb_transparent_r.gif" style="height: 11px; width: 19px;" class="skype_tb_img_adge" height="11"></span></span></span></span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
"Learn the principle, </span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">abide by the principle, and </span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2">
<span style="font-size: 10pt;">dissolve the principle." </span></font></pre><pre><font color="#333399" face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">-- Bruce Lee</span></font></pre></div>*
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</span></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Love
rays,<br>Tree Fitzpatrick<br><br><a href="http://thecultureoflove.blogspot.com/" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://thecultureoflove.blogspot.com/</a><br><br>.
. . the great and incalculable grace of love, which says, with Augustine, "I
want you to be," without being able to give any particular reason for such
supreme and unsurpassable affirmation. -- Hannah Arendt
<br><br>1335 Montecito Ave Apt. 35<br>Mountain View, California 94043<br>(650)
967-9260 * * ==========================================================
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</span></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>CHRIS CORRIGAN<br>Facilitation - Training<br>Open Space Technology<br><br>Weblog: <a href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot">http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
</a><br>Site: <a href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com">http://www.chriscorrigan.com</a><br><br>Principal, Harvest Moon Consultants, Ltd.<br><a href="http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com">http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com
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