<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Comic Sans MS">Thank you Kaliya. It is very thought-provoking (and enlivening) to have this challenge to the centrality of the circle in every circumstance. Thanks for voicing it. <BR>
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<SPAN style="COLOR: #800080">Cliodhna Mulhern <BR>
flowstone <BR>
+44(0)7929 328513 <BR>
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"If you want to go faster, go alone. If you want to go further, go together" <BR>
African Proverb <BR>
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<B>On Tue Aug 21 15:12 , Kaliya Hamlin <KALIYA@MAC.COM>sent:<BR>
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<DIV>Right. </DIV>
<DIV>so then all these open space people get 'fanatical' about the "circle" and miss out on the fact it can be culturally way out of bounds for some convening. Is the point of open space to help them create a great day together - with an agenda that is their own making OR to impose my belief that the circle is totally 'natural' and 'normal' and then make it difficult for them to access the process because of the form. </DIV>
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<DIV>Let me be clear - I work my communities into a circle for openings over time. There are already many cultural hurdles to doing open space and adding in the circle at the very beginning for its own sake to 'prove' a point of "equality" etc. is not what I choose to do.</DIV>
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<DIV>I get the circle is very natural. It is also something that has been driven out of these cultures bringing it back in takes some time and isn't for me the 'first' thing I do. </DIV><BR>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000080; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,128); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000080; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,128); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,128); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> I am sure there are people who feel uncomfortable in a circle but I suspect they are the ones who want to pontificate as opposed to communicate.<BR>
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<DIV>Nope they are just not used to it. </DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE name="Street" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE name="address" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags">
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000080; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,128); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,128); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,128); FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Doubtless there is a place for such people and their feelings – but probably not Open Space, which they may find terrifying, out of control, and other terrible things – not to mention New Age!</SPAN></SPAN></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>you don't "need" a circle to do open space. you need really smart amazing people who you support in creating their own agenda the day it happens.</DIV>
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<DIV>I choose to take an attitude of understanding and respect for professional cultures that are not used to the form and adapt to them - not imposing to much change to fast.</DIV>
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<DIV>=Kaliya</DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">OSLIST</SPAN></ST1:PERSONNAME><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> [mailto:</SPAN><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">OSLIST</SPAN></ST1:PERSONNAME><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] </SPAN><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">On Behalf Of </SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Kaliya Hamlin</SPAN><BR style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Sent:</SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:51 AM</SPAN><BR style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">To:</SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">OSLIST</SPAN></ST1:PERSONNAME><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</SPAN><BR style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><B style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Subject:</SPAN></SPAN></B><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Re: FW: The challenge of "luminaries"</SPAN></SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">Following the conference, we head from one of them, who was quite turned off by the whole experience. Here's an excerpt:</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">> Instead I was at a New Age, "open circle" conference where</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">> the questions were as flat and meaningless as possible so no one would feel</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">> excluded. </SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">I have to say honestly - I totally understand this reaction. Some times 'typical' open space can get into this 'circle grooviness' that some how demeans people with high professional expectations. When I first introduced open space to my tech community we sat in a multi ring semi circle with the agenda wall at the front that we then filled. When first introducing open space to technical communities not used to the 'circle culture' I often use theater style - they are already doing a radically different process then normal. I don't need to force 'circle" on them too. I always close the day in the circle though and sure enough in good time (like by the third conference) they get the process and begin in circle no problem. </SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: rgb(0,0,221); FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,221); FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">She cancelled at the last moment because she just didn't see a role for herself. She described herself as a high introvert and without a role, felt she would not be comfortable there.</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,221); FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">Interesting. The 'luminaries' in my community LOVE the Open Space and the fact it mixes things up. They get to hear from others who are thinking about innovative things AND they get to talk about their latest thing - but not because someone on some committee picked them - because they wanted to. </SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">Perhaps the best thing that I have found is to use a wiki to let them all output what they want to talk about before hand - The luminaires who are all like 'i want to speak about x' you just put all that up on the wiki and say they get to put it on the agenda the day it happens. The "luminaries" in my community are the biggest fans of the process and are infact active inviters of new people who would otherwise not come. </SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">I almost always do 'audience/attendee' introductions for my events yes and even when we are sitting in theater style. The thing is a lot of folks 'know' each other form correspondence on mailing lists AND reading each others blogs but have NEVER met or seen a photo. Making the visual connection between person and name along with identifing the company or organization they are will his helpful. I can get a room or 150 people to do rapid fire introductions in 10 min.</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">Agreement on the needs thing - a bit much time wise and energy wise for a group. Best to do that kind of thing on paper. </SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">He was expecting what he had understood an 'unconference' to be - which in one conception of the process that was put forward in the tech community had a chosen topics and a chosen 'luminary facilitators' "leading a discussion" in a theater style room with anywhere from 25-200 people. Needless to say this is not very open space (and it never claimed to be - geeks are not known for their face-to-face group process literacy but they were trying their best to step out of conference norms.) It put the luminary in the 'center' controlling a room. </SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">I hope this perspective helps. </SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">=Kaliya</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><SPAN style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px">Kaliya - Identity Woman</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><A href="javascript:top.opencompose('kaliya@mac.com','','','')"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">kaliya@mac.com</SPAN></A><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><A href="http://www.unconference.net"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">http://www.unconference.net</SPAN></A><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><A href="http://www.identitywoman.net"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">http://www.identitywoman.net</SPAN></A><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><A href="skype:identitywoman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">skype:identitywoman</SPAN></A><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px">Y!:earthwaters</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><A href="AIM:kaliya@mac.com"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255); -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: underline">AIM:kaliya@mac.com</SPAN></A><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px">510 472-9069 (bay area)</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 8px">415 425 1136 (on the road)</SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 8pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica"><BR style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"><BR style="FONT-SIZE: 8px"></SPAN><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"></O:P></P></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><O:P style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"> </SPAN></O:P></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>* * ========================================================== OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu: <A href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</A> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <A href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</A> * * ========================================================== OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu: <A href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</A> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <A href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</A></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>Kaliya - Identity Woman</DIV>
<DIV><A href="javascript:top.opencompose('kaliya@mac.com','','','')">kaliya@mac.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.unconference.net">http://www.unconference.net</A></DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.identitywoman.net">http://www.identitywoman.net</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><A href="skype:identitywoman">skype:identitywoman</A></DIV>
<DIV>Y!:earthwaters</DIV>
<DIV><A href="AIM:kaliya@mac.com">AIM:kaliya@mac.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>510 472-9069 (bay area)</DIV>
<DIV>415 425 1136 (on the road)</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR>
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