<P>To quote wikipedia which highlights the views of a fellow Oxford <BR>
resident - George Monbiot:<BR>
<BR>
"Many environmentalists disagree with the principle of carbon offsets. <BR>
George Monbiot </WIKI George_Monbiot>, an English environmentalist and <BR>
writer, has compared carbon offsets to the practice of purchasing <BR>
Indulgences </WIKI Indulgence>during the Middle Ages, whereby people <BR>
with money could purchase forgiveness for their sins (instead of <BR>
actually repenting and not sinning anymore). Monbiot also says that <BR>
carbon offsets are an excuse for business as usual with regards to <BR>
pollution. To date, no authoritative studies have been <BR>
performed concerning offset buyers' behavior (e.g., whether they take <BR>
other measures to reduce their CO_2 output.)"<BR>
<BR>
<A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset</SPAN></A></P>
<P>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Hello Jon and thank you for this posting. I think George Monbiot's thoughts give us a helpful nudge to be realistic about the limitations of carbon offsetting as a strategy while embracing the motivation behind it...it is really great that there is such a surge of self-awareness in travel planning and I take my hat off to everyone who is thinking twice about how to get from A to B...</P>
<P>From the (unusually) sunny Faughan Valley in North West Ireland.<BR>
<BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #800080">Cliodhna Mulhern <BR>
flowstone <BR>
+44(0)7929 328513 <BR>
<BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #32cd32">"All meaningful and lasting change starts first in your imagination and then works its way out. Imagination is more important than knowledge. " <BR>
Albert Einstein </SPAN></SPAN><BR>
<BR>
<B>On Wed Apr 11 23:50 , Jon Harvey <ONLY.CONNECT@VIRGIN.NET>sent:<BR>
<BR>
</P></B>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #5167c6 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">Catherine<BR>
<BR>
No - I did not think your posting was a hoax. My response was whimsical <BR>
(perhaps to lighten the mood a little on this listserv at the moment... <BR>
the website I recommended - which I parenthesised - is a real spoof <BR>
website that is quite funny).<BR>
<BR>
But I do think there is a serious point here as well (which lies behind <BR>
the spoof website too) as to whether carbon offsetting is an effective <BR>
response to global warming.<BR>
<BR>
To quote wikipedia which highlights the views of a fellow Oxford <BR>
resident - George Monbiot:<BR>
<BR>
"Many environmentalists disagree with the principle of carbon offsets. <BR>
George Monbiot </WIKI George_Monbiot>, an English environmentalist and <BR>
writer, has compared carbon offsets to the practice of purchasing <BR>
Indulgences </WIKI Indulgence>during the Middle Ages, whereby people <BR>
with money could purchase forgiveness for their sins (instead of <BR>
actually repenting and not sinning anymore). Monbiot also says that <BR>
carbon offsets are an excuse for business as usual with regards to <BR>
pollution.^[15] <#_note-7> To date, no authoritative studies have been <BR>
performed concerning offset buyers' behavior (e.g., whether they take <BR>
other measures to reduce their CO_2 output.)"<BR>
<BR>
<A href="parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCarbon_offset" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset</SPAN></A><BR>
<BR>
I do have some sympathies with his point of view. And I do appreciate <BR>
your commitment to using trains. This is a complex area of ethics and I <BR>
am still working out my own standards.<BR>
<BR>
Hope this helps and keeps the space open..<BR>
<BR>
Regards<BR>
<BR>
Jon<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Catherine Pfaehler wrote:<BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Jon, my posting was serious. Did you check out the website of</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> <A href="http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http://www.myclimate.org" target=_blank>www.myclimate.org</A>, or did you just think it was a hoax? </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> I'm using it regularly when I fly (which I avoid whenever I can take a train</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> around Europe), and so is our company for its car. I have followed this</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> initiative from its beginning. It's now 5 years old and has become a serious</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> and ethical business.</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Regards - Catherine</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Catherine Pfaehler Senn</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> lic.oec.HSG</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Open Space Begleitung</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Kellersriedweg 8</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> CH - 2503 Biel</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> +41-(0)32 - 365 68 41</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> <A href="javascript:top.opencompose('c.pfaehler@bluewin.ch','','','')">c.pfaehler@bluewin.ch</A></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Von: Jon Harvey [<A href="javascript:top.opencompose('<a href=" javascript:top.opencompose(?only.connect@virgin.net?,??,??,??)?>only.connect@virgin.net</A>','','','')"><A href="javascript:top.opencompose('only.connect@virgin.net','','','')">only.connect@virgin.net</A></A>] </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 23:34</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> An: <A href="javascript:top.opencompose('c.pfaehler@bluewin.ch','','','')">c.pfaehler@bluewin.ch</A></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Cc: <A href="javascript:top.opencompose('OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU','','','')">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Betreff: Re: climate-neutral flights and drives!</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Hi all</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> I would also 'recommend' a website called:</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> <A href="http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http://www.cheatneutral.com" target=_blank>www.cheatneutral.com</A></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> ...where people who are committing adultery can have their behaviour </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> offset by someone else who is committed to a single life or fidelity...</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> I have also resolved to drink only flat beers from now on - as I think </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> that gassy beer can only be adding to greenhouse gases...</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Happy space to everyone!</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Jon</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Oxford</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> Catherine Pfaehler wrote:</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Harrison and everybody - wishing you well...</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Did you know that on <A href="http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http://www.myclimate.org" target=_blank>www.myclimate.org</A> you can buy climate tickets along</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> with your airline tickets to CO2-neutralize your flights, and even your</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> car</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> drives? A great initiative by swiss students which is doing a wonderful</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> job</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> in investing the money they make in neutralizing projects! You enter your</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> points of departure and arrival and the system calculates how many tons of</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> CO2 you emit by sitting in that plane. Then it tells you how much a</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> climate</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> ticket costs. You buy it with your credit card. Absolutely affordable!</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Love, Catherine</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Catherine Pfaehler Senn</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> lic.oec.HSG</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Open Space Begleitung</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Kellersriedweg 8</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> CH - 2503 Biel</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> +41-(0)32 - 365 68 41</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> <A href="javascript:top.opencompose('c.pfaehler@bluewin.ch','','','')">c.pfaehler@bluewin.ch</A></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Von: Harrison Owen [<A href="javascript:top.opencompose('<a href=" javascript:top.opencompose(?hhowen@verizon.net?,??,??,??)?>hhowen@verizon.net</A>','','','')"><A href="javascript:top.opencompose('hhowen@verizon.net','','','')">hhowen@verizon.net</A></A>] </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. April 2007 01:50</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Betreff: For My Friends in Kiev</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Just so you know - I think what you are doing is wonderful, and I hope</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> that</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> everybody who can - will come. For myself - I would be there except for a</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Sciatic Nerve that reminds me that I am not as young as I used to be, and</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> further -- that multiple hours on planes is not a good thing at this</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> point.</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> I was amazed (depressed) to find that on United Airlines alone I had</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> clocked</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> ¾ of a million miles. Just think of the tons of CO2 (greenhouse gas) I</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> have</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> contributed!!! Anyhow, I have to stick closer to home at the moment, and I</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> know you will have a grand time!</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Harrison</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Harrison Owen</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> 7808 River Falls Drive</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Potomac, Maryland 20854</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Phone 301-365-2093</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Skype hhowen</SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Open Space Training <A href="http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http://www.openspaceworld.com" target=_blank>www.openspaceworld.com</A></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> <<A href="http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openspaceworld.com%2F" target=_blank><SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">http://www.openspaceworld.com/</SPAN></A>></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">> </SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Open Space Institute <A href="http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http://www.openspaceworld.org" target=_blank>www.openspaceworld.org</A></SPAN><BR>
<SPAN style="COLOR: #ff0000">>> Personal website <A href="http://mail.uk2.net/parse.pl?redirect=http://www.ho-image.com" target=_blank>www.ho-image.com</A> </SPAN><BR>
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