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<DIV> "I agree with Josef that this is the artistic or creative process but
creativity is not limited to visual expression."</DIV>
<DIV>Pat Black</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>and expression and communication is not
limited to words, so it's good to have diversity and diverse ways of
expression</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>and communication in the
group. 2 contributions i can think of now :</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1- people learn different ways to express
themselves</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2- expression by art, when it
is practical and simple, saves time and energy in communicating and
connection</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Funda</FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2> </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=patoitextiles@gmail.com href="mailto:patoitextiles@gmail.com">Pat
Black</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:11
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Working with visual artists
at an Open Space</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear Funda and All<BR><BR>I have been reading this thread with
great interest and actually agree with every thought offered in the
discussion. It is all true for me at least. For me it is doesn't
matter whether you operate in a visual or auditory mode. The space can be
closed or opened in any sensory mode. Whatever mode or combinations of
modes used need to allow for emergence of whatever to occur. For the
space to be open there needs to be detachment from the outcome. Process
and people and ideas need to be left alone so that something that was
invisible emerges. I agree with Josef that this is the artistic or
creative process but creativity is not limited to visual expression.
Visual expression for me is the place where the creative process is most
challenging and rewarding and facilitates my breaking through from the
thinking process that leads me to same old same old thinking. There
isn't a way to creative process. There are a banquet of choices for us
to sample from. <BR><BR>The point for me is how to we make sure that
there is a banquet of choices and make sure that none of the choices are
marginalized or trivialized. The challenge rests there for me. I
think Michael Herman had some interesting insights in regards to this. Michael
said, <BR>
<P dir=ltr
style="FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,serif"><FONT
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">NOW, all that said... IF the artist can
step out of this sort of<BR>default role of brilliant storyteller and
documenter and work same as<BR>the facilitator -- to invite everyone else to
make up the story for<BR>themselves, now that seems something entirely
different to me. the<BR>artist as invitation, the artist who never
sketches anything -- but<BR>somehow finishes the day with a wall full of
pictures by others... now<BR>that is what i call artistic opening!<BR>i'm not
interested in bringing others in to do things that we think<BR>participants
can't do for themselves. i want to invite participants<BR>to do it *all*
for themselves. that, to me, is what open space is<BR>for... discovering
that we can do it for ourselves... that we have the<BR>bullet points, the
artful sketch, the passion, the responsiblity, the<BR>vision and the action
within each and all of us.<FONT size=4><BR></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT size=4></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT
size=1><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT
size=4><BR></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>If our goal is to provide a space where we
can all emerge more fully and more dimensionally than what Michael is saying
is true, for me at least. And in order to accomplish the realization of
everyone's artist then we have to provide the space and materials for that to
happen. You can't speak in a visual or musical language with out the tools of
that language and fluent speakers. I think what Michael is getting at is
that the most important role artists, musicians and poets can play is not as
note takers, although some may want to serve as visual note takers.
There most powerful influence is as guides for how to move down unknown paths
and for most people in my experience with a lot of baggage from unsuccessful
experiences trying to speak the language. If I were to critique open
space events for there commitment to emergence in multiple modalities than I
would be looking for spaces and tools and materials for those languages to
occur in. I would also be looking to invite participants who are fluent
speakers in the language who can help non-speakers become satisfied with their
own expression in the language.<BR>Pat Black<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 8/22/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Funda
Oral</B> <<A
href="mailto:fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr">fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>
<DIV lang=EN-US bgcolor="#ffffff" link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Josef and all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have similar questions, suspicions and
discussions that you raised. Yet, i also feel that we are in a process
of combining all these :</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>feelings, senses, creativity, service,
work, business, make a living, joy, business and
responsibility. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=sg>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Funda</FONT></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=q>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=joralt@netvision.net.il
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:joralt@netvision.net.il" target=_blank>joralt</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"
target=_blank>OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A> </DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=e id=q_10d354184760c1bf_4>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, August 21, 2006 12:24 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Working with visual artists at an Open Space</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=rtl>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Hi Reinhard and
all</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Your question
describes very accurately my feelings of deep unease when it comes to how
people of many "open space" institutes (such as Learning Organizations or
Chaordic Alliance, for example) treat artists and their invaluable
contributions all the while using the concept of artistic behavior to
describe the new and innovative ways of doing business and how the new
leadership in all walks of life should learn from jazz musicians, designers
and architects. Yet, when you check how many artists are actually comprising
the active leading teams of all those organizations all you will find is
more of the same business and all old school management people who have
suddenly realized how profitable is to sell their Ferrari after you moved
your cheese out of the artists way. For most of those artists opening space
is a daily and routine activity, done mostly with the deep visceral
knowledge of how to balance content and form in the best possible way within
a context of a given composition. And this is precisely because this
knowledge is not based on mental conception there is such a deep distrust of
any input coming from feelings and the senses, so I am not surprised a bit
to hear that we are the addendum that one should be careful about as we
might bring some true innovation and insights and tip the balance against
the dominance of the ruling literary and word oriented
elite.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">All the
best</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Josef
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Josef
Ralt</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">mobile:972528000278</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">home:97236821621</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/joeralt"
target=_blank>http://www.flickr.c<SPAN
lang=DE>om/photos/joeralt</SPAN></A></SPAN></FONT><SPAN
lang=DE></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P dir=ltr><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
OSLIST [mailto:<A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"
target=_blank>OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Visuelle
Protokolle<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday,
August 21, 2006 8:34 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
<A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"
target=_blank>OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> AW: Working with visual
artists at an Open Space</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Hi Chris, and
all you others,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I was hoping that
your question would open a dialog I was seeking since years. Since years I
am on this OS list, feeling that you and me are seeking for the same
treasure in and on similar ways.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">But then I get
Harrison's "</SPAN></FONT><FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">One caution about visual artists and other such
addendum</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Verdana color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">" and ask me, and ask you: Are
you, like me, an addendum to the process of self organizing people, helping
them a bit as we can with our tools, or are you the high priests and I am
the addendum?</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Mit freundlichen
Grüßen</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">best
regards</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Reinhard</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">VISUELLE
PROTOKOLLE</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Kuchenmüller
& Stifel</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">tel +39-0566-88
929</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=navy size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.visuelle-protokolle.de"
target=_blank>www.visuelle-protokolle.de</A></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV dir=ltr style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=DE style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P dir=ltr style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
lang=DE
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">Von:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN lang=DE
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> OSLIST [mailto:<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"
target=_blank>OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Im Auftrag von </SPAN></B>Chris
Corrigan<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Gesendet:</SPAN></B>
Mittwoch, 9. August 2006 18:51<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">An:</SPAN></B> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"
target=_blank>OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Betreff:</SPAN></B> Working with visual artists at
an Open Space</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=DE></SPAN></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi mates:<BR><BR>I have an opportunity coming up in
the fall to work with a visual artist for an Open Space I am doing.
The clients wants us to work together and I'm excited by the possibility,
but haven't ever done that before. <BR><BR>So what kind of good
stories do you have of working with visual artists (and visual art as a
modality) in Open Space.<BR><BR>Daniel? Reinhardt? Is Nancy
Margulis around? Others?<BR clear=all><BR>Chris<BR><BR>-- <BR>CHRIS
CORRIGAN<BR>Consultation - Facilitation<BR>Open Space
Technology<BR><BR>Weblog: <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot"
target=_blank>http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot</A><BR>Site: <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com"
target=_blank>http://www.chriscorrigan.com</A><BR>Open Space
Resources: <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://tinyurl.com/r94tj" target=_blank>http://tinyurl.com/r94tj</A> *
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