Dear Funda and All<br>
<br>
I have been reading this thread with great interest and actually agree
with every thought offered in the discussion. It is all true for
me at least. For me it is doesn't matter whether you operate in a
visual or auditory mode. The space can be closed or opened in any
sensory mode. Whatever mode or combinations of modes used need to
allow for emergence of whatever to occur. For the space to be
open there needs to be detachment from the outcome. Process and
people and ideas need to be left alone so that something that was
invisible emerges. I agree with Josef that this is the artistic
or creative process but creativity is not limited to visual
expression. Visual expression for me is the place where the
creative process is most challenging and rewarding and facilitates my
breaking through from the thinking process that leads me to same old
same old thinking. There isn't a way to creative process.
There are a banquet of choices for us to sample from. <br>
<br>
The point for me is how to we make sure that there is a banquet of
choices and make sure that none of the choices are marginalized or
trivialized. The challenge rests there for me. I think
Michael Herman had some interesting insights in regards to this.
Michael said, <br>
<p style="font-style: italic; font-family: times new roman,serif;" dir="ltr"><font size="1"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">NOW, all that said... IF the artist can step out of
this sort of<br>
default role of brilliant storyteller and documenter
and work same as<br>
the facilitator -- to invite everyone else to make up
the story for<br>
themselves, now that seems something entirely
different to me. the<br>
artist as invitation, the artist who never sketches
anything -- but<br>
somehow finishes the day with a wall full of pictures
by others... now<br>
that is what i call artistic opening!<br>
i'm not interested in bringing others in to do things
that we think<br>
participants can't do for themselves. i want to
invite participants<br>
to do it *all* for themselves. that, to me, is what
open space is<br>
for... discovering that we can do it for ourselves... that
we have the<br>
bullet points, the artful sketch, the passion, the
responsiblity, the<br>
vision and the action within each and all of us.<font size="4"><br>
</font></span></font><font size="1"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font size="4"></font></span></font><font size="1"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><font size="4"><br>
</font></span></font></p>
If our goal is to provide a space where we can all emerge more fully
and more dimensionally than what Michael is saying is true, for me at
least. And in order to accomplish the realization of everyone's
artist
then we have to provide the space and materials for that to happen. You
can't speak in a visual or musical language with out the tools of that
language and fluent speakers. I think what Michael is getting at
is that the most important role artists, musicians and poets can play
is not as note takers, although some may want to serve as visual note
takers. There most powerful influence is as guides for how to
move down unknown paths and for most people in my experience with a lot
of baggage from unsuccessful experiences trying to speak the
language. If I were to critique open space events for there
commitment to emergence in multiple modalities than I would be looking
for spaces and tools and materials for those languages to occur
in. I would also be looking to invite participants who are fluent
speakers in the language who can help non-speakers become satisfied
with their own expression in the language.<br>
Pat Black<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/22/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Funda Oral</b> <<a href="mailto:fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr">fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div vlink="blue" link="blue" bgcolor="#ffffff" lang="EN-US">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Dear Josef and all,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I have similar questions, suspicions and
discussions that you raised. Yet, i also feel that we are in a process of
combining all these :</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">feelings, senses, creativity, service,
work, business, make a living, joy, business and
responsibility. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Regards,</font></div></div><div><span class="sg">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Funda</font></div>
</span></div><div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"></blockquote></div><div><span class="q">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="joralt@netvision.net.il" href="mailto:joralt@netvision.net.il" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">joralt</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
</div></span></div><div><span class="e" id="q_10d354184760c1bf_4">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 21, 2006 12:24
PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: Working with visual artists
at an Open Space</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font><br></div>
<div dir="rtl">
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;">Hi Reinhard and
all</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;">Your question
describes very accurately my feelings of deep unease when it comes to how
people of many "open space" institutes (such as Learning Organizations or
Chaordic Alliance, for example) treat artists and their invaluable
contributions all the while using the concept of artistic behavior to describe
the new and innovative ways of doing business and how the new leadership in
all walks of life should learn from jazz musicians, designers and architects.
Yet, when you check how many artists are actually comprising the active
leading teams of all those organizations all you will find is more of the same
business and all old school management people who have suddenly realized how
profitable is to sell their Ferrari after you moved your cheese out of the
artists way. For most of those artists opening space is a daily and routine
activity, done mostly with the deep visceral knowledge of how to balance
content and form in the best possible way within a context of a given
composition. And this is precisely because this knowledge is not based on
mental conception there is such a deep distrust of any input coming from
feelings and the senses, so I am not surprised a bit to hear that we are the
addendum that one should be careful about as we might bring some true
innovation and insights and tip the balance against the dominance of the
ruling literary and word oriented elite.</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;">All the
best</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;">Josef
</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;">Josef
Ralt</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;">mobile:972528000278</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;">home:97236821621</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black;"></span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: Tahoma;"><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/joeralt" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://www.flickr.c<span lang="DE">om/photos/joeralt</span></a></span></font><span lang="DE"></span></p></div>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;" align="center" dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p dir="ltr"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
OSLIST
[mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Visuelle Protokolle<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 21, 2006 8:34
AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> AW: Working with visual artists
at an Open Space</span></font></p></div>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">Hi Chris, and
all you others,</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">I was hoping that
your question would open a dialog I was seeking since years. Since years I am
on this OS list, feeling that you and me are seeking for the same treasure in
and on similar ways.</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">But then I get
Harrison's "</span></font><font color="black" face="Arial Narrow"><span style="color: black;">One caution about visual
artists and other such addendum</span></font><font color="navy" face="Verdana"><span style="color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">" and ask me, and
ask you: Are you, like me, an addendum to the process of self organizing
people, helping them a bit as we can with our tools, or are you the high
priests and I am the addendum?</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">Mit freundlichen
Grüßen</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">best
regards</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">Reinhard</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">VISUELLE
PROTOKOLLE</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">Kuchenmüller &
Stifel</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;">tel +39-0566-88
929</span></font></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font color="navy" face="Verdana" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.visuelle-protokolle.de" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
www.visuelle-protokolle.de</a></span></font></p>
<div>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div style="text-align: center;" align="center" dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="DE">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" dir="ltr"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" lang="DE">Von:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;" lang="DE">
OSLIST [mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Im Auftrag von
</span></b>Chris Corrigan<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Gesendet:</span></b> Mittwoch, 9. August 2006
18:51<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">An:</span></b>
<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Betreff:</span></b> Working with visual artists at
an Open Space</span></font><span lang="DE"></span></p>
<p dir="ltr"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi mates:<br><br>I have an opportunity coming up in
the fall to work with a visual artist for an Open Space I am doing. The
clients wants us to work together and I'm excited by the possibility, but
haven't ever done that before. <br><br>So what kind of good stories do
you have of working with visual artists (and visual art as a modality) in Open
Space.<br><br>Daniel? Reinhardt? Is Nancy Margulis around?
Others?<br clear="all"><br>Chris<br><br>-- <br>CHRIS CORRIGAN<br>Consultation -
Facilitation<br>Open Space Technology<br><br>Weblog: <a href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot</a><br>
Site:
<a href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.chriscorrigan.com</a><br>Open
Space Resources: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/r94tj" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://tinyurl.com/r94tj</a> * *
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