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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000>First i want to
say that i am very grateful to have met you on this list, being able
to read about your stories...and i agree with</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000>most of your
ideas.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I couldn't come to some conclusion but with some
questions.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
color=#000000> </FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Filiz says</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>"OS is the most powerful empowerment medicine I've ever seen...:) "</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>can OST be compared to drugs in this
sense?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Michael answers to Filiz :</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>With the addition of me stepping aside and selforganization doing its
magic<BR>people did what they already were capable of.<BR>They are
empowered.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial size=2>Why anybody would need to be
empowered...don't we have enough power to live when we are
born?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Chris Kloth is
talking about "healing the world"</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Can't we leave to future generations
a world that does not need to be healed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't remember exactly was it Chris Corrigan
who wrote "we probably came to life to struggle"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I doubt that...my 6th sense says that
all of us; we came to enjoy, have fun,
love, laugh<EM>....</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>we should have been given equal
opportunity for that <EM>(this has been a belief not a
question)</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT color=#000000>Harrison
writes:</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"But then the question arisies where and how do I
make the maximum impact? I don't think there is any easy or "right" answer to
this But then the question arisies where and how do I make the maximum impact? I
don't think there is any easy or "right" answer to this "</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>no, in fact, i could not find an
answer to that for myself...but over the years where i am now i don't want to do
anything which will cause</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>any harm to anybody (including
myself). The question i ask myself how do i make zero harm..the rest is not so
important. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><EM></EM></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>My story also includes ups and downs,
surprises, questions and struggle to understand, to exist and to go
on...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I learned many things at every
challenges and maybe i am growing up (better to think like
that::)) </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I am more lucky from many people
having my laptop, food, time, health,home, family, friends, space to think,
to reflect and to write</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>you, speak in english...i can
still enjoy life although my mind gets confused seeing where life can
go.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>And i wish nobody has to
struggle for anything, has to face any but any slightest
difficulty in this life adventure.... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Funda </FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2> </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr href="mailto:fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr">Funda
Oral</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 15, 2005 7:50
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Open Space - a
minimum?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Harrison, Michael, Chris and Filiz..thank
you for sharing your experiences, choices and thoughts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I read yr messages and will probably reread
them........many thoughts are fighting in my head now</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>...i want to write something later when i come to
a conclusion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mmpanne@boscop.de href="mailto:mmpanne@boscop.de">Pannwitz, Michael
M</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, August 14, 2005 10:26
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Open Space - a
minimum?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" DEFAULT="FACE"><FONT size=3
DEFAULT="SIZE" POINTSIZE="12">Dear Filiz,<BR>reflecting on my experience in
more than 100 os events I facilitated<BR>I dont recall running into
"indifference, powerlessness or isolation"<BR>but being with people that
were coming from "abundance, action and responsibilty".<BR>(plenty of them
pretty mad, upset, full of stuff they needed to get rid of, ready to fight
or to go into conflict and thirsting for allies to do their stuff).<BR>And
that appeared to be a good basis for getting things going.<BR>With the
addition of me stepping aside and selforganization doing its magic<BR>people
did what they already were capable of.<BR>They are empowered.<BR>Greetings
from Berlin<BR>mmp<BR><BR>--Original Message Text---<BR><B>From:</B> Filiz
Telek<BR><B>Date:</B> Sun, 14 Aug 2005 08:27:40 -0700<BR><BR>as I mentioned
at OSonOS, and as I always say, for me the power of OS is to shift the
mindset from one of 'indifference, powerlessness, isolation' to 'abundance,
action, responsibility'<BR>which is absolutely fundamental for authentic,
grassroots, effective social change <BR><BR>OS is the most powerful
empowerment medicine I've ever seen...:)
<BR><BR>filiz<BR><BR><BR><B><I>"Pannwitz, Michael M"
<mmpanne@boscop.de></B></I> wrote:<BR>Dear Funda,<BR>I live in a rich
city: Berlin.<BR>My colleagues and I have facilitated about 300 os-events
since 1996<BR>in this city alone.<BR>The dark sides of this city have in
that same period grown:<BR>unemployment, poverty, homelessness, dismanteling
of social services,<BR>cuts in primary education and health care,
disentchantment with the<BR>political process....along with the widening gap
between poor -<BR>middle income and rich people.<BR>So, whats all this
effort led to?<BR>Heaven knows<BR>and<BR>almost every day I get little
signs<BR>someone approaching me in a bus, on the street, an email, a
telephone<BR>call, <BR>characterized by a smile.<BR>As far as I am
concerned, thats pretty much all I need to keep going.<BR>A few days ago I
returned from Karachi, Pakistan,<BR>somewhere between 14 and 19 million
people,<BR>where Yaari and I lead a training for 26 colleagues from
Afghanistan,<BR>Nepal, Pakistan and Sri Lanka.<BR>There, I saw grand
opportunities for open space and talked about it<BR>to people.<BR>That
environment with its many challenges invigorated me,<BR>especially those
thousands of people I saw while going to the<BR>railroad station, the
harbor, the markets, along teeming streets...<BR>all of them, including the
tenacious begging children, rising to the<BR>really difficult situation
making a go of things,<BR>seemingly at a very high level of "muddling
through".<BR>What splendid resources!<BR>And: I dont need to understand
their struggle to facilitate an open<BR>space technology event.<BR>And: I am
certainly not going to help them to get what they need not<BR>really knowing
or being able to understand their need.<BR>Neither in Berlin or in
Karachi.<BR>What I can supply, is assistance in getting an os-event set up
and to<BR>facilitate it (or, in the case of Karachi, train people to do
that)<BR>which will definitely provide the best known framework
for<BR>selforganization including the optimal use of whatever resources
are<BR>available.<BR><BR>While I was in Karachi, I read the "Dawn" every
morning (in fact,<BR>there is hardly a dawn or dusk in Karachi, it seems to
go from light<BR>to dark to light within minutes)<BR>and a story about
"Karachi 2020" caught my eye.<BR>It described in great detail all the stuff
a huge staff of<BR>consultants (foreign) was hired for to "understand" the
problem,<BR>about 20 fields of investigation, half a newspaper page full
(census,<BR>roads, income distribution, migration patterns.....)<BR>with
side remarks about the government scolding the local planners<BR>for not
being competent to develope proper plans.<BR>I read it all and at the very
end I found a note that after the plans<BR>would all be drawn
up,<BR>citizens would be invited to explain the plans to them,<BR>with the
possibility to then fine tune them.<BR><BR>Well, what a neglect of local
resources!<BR>What an upside down procedure, producing another set of
eventually<BR>useless data under the ill fatet belief that this kind of
planning<BR>will actually improve Karachi.<BR>Lots of room for open space,
though.<BR>Maybe some of my colleagues will get busy on those and other
areas<BR>there.<BR><BR>Greetings from Berlin<BR>mmp<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Sat,
13 Aug 2005 13:40:56 +0300, Funda Oral wrote:<BR><BR>>Dear John and
everybody,<BR>><BR>>I live in a city where one can see extreme cases (
richness and poorness, <BR>>joy and powerty so on...)<BR>>in a short
distance from each other.<BR>><BR>>One sees so big problems, and so
strong struggle for life<BR>>that sometime the word "open space" looks
funny, silly and luxury.<BR>><BR>>I still believe that "opening
space", inviting people to<BR>>exist, to talk, to express their needs and
struggle is<BR>>"something", a very small step maybe, but still
helpful.<BR>><BR>>But it's not enough, the ultimate aim is to
understand their straggle<BR>>and help them to get what they need...we
don't need to be poor with the <BR>>poor;<BR>>sick with the sick ( as
Judi beautifully mentions)...the least we can do<BR>>is to open space to
respect them.... but this is only the minimum.<BR>><BR>>And i am very
worried and sad to see that in many cases all i could<BR>>do would be to
open space. I am not strong or rich enough to
end<BR>>struggle.<BR>><BR>>I guess we need more trembling hearts,
more resources and better<BR>>cooperation for
that.<BR>><BR>>Funda<BR>><BR>><BR>>----- Original Message
----- <BR>>From: "john engle" <BR>>To: <BR>>Sent: Thursday, August
11, 2005 10:17 PM<BR>>Subject: powerful poem! help me understand
it.<BR>><BR>><BR>>> hi brendan, kairi and
others.<BR>>><BR>>> i've never opened space in a prison but i
have participated in a <BR>>> touchstones discussion
(http://touchstones.org) with about 25 men serving <BR>>> life
sentences. the discussion centered around "power" and not <BR>>>
surprisingly, i learned a great deal.<BR>>><BR>>> great that you
are doing this! i look forward to following developments as <BR>>> you
work toward opening space in prisons.<BR>>><BR>>> on another
subject, kairi, thank you for sharing that poem in your <BR>>>
message. i love it! and, i loved being at OSonOS! Judi, you and your team
<BR>>> did a great job at receiving us and making us feel at
home.<BR>>><BR>>> while i love the spirit of the poem, i just
don't know what to do with <BR>>> "banish the word struggle from your
vocabulary." how do others see this?<BR>>><BR>>> removing the
word struggle from MY vocabulary seems like it could have <BR>>> some
positive outcomes. at the same time, it's hard for me to think of a
<BR>>> better word that describes daily life for so many people. and,
not <BR>>> acknowledging this seems like i might be missing something
as i work with <BR>>> folks in circumstances so much different from my
own.<BR>>><BR>>> i'm in haiti as i write and catching up with
friends and colleagues. there <BR>>> are at least hundreds of
thousands of people here--some estimate in the <BR>>> millions--that
don't consume a meal each day. and when they do, they don't <BR>>>
know when they'll eat next. i can't begin to imagine what living with so
<BR>>> much uncertainty and discomfort must be like. and i've also
learned that <BR>>> far too often we who live in financially
prosperous countries romance <BR>>> poverty, saying that poor people
are happier.<BR>>><BR>>> it serves us (people who live in
financially prosperous countries) well to <BR>>> see things this way
and it pains me when i have US American visitors with <BR>>> me in
Haiti and conclude after a week here that the people are "so happy."
<BR>>> in many cultures, those in the southern countries included, it
is <BR>>> appropriate to put one's best face forward especially when
meeting <BR>>> visitors. those same Haitians who looked so happy to
the visitor might be <BR>>> totally stressed out because they're
worrying about how they're going to <BR>>> pay school fees for their
kids and get a meal together, etc. when they <BR>>> speak in their own
language to me, "struggle" projects from their facial <BR>>>
expressions, body movement and words.<BR>>><BR>>> i would not
feel comfortable asking folks who live such realities to <BR>>> remove
"struggle" from their vocabulary.<BR>>><BR>>> thanks for your
patience as i vent and live emotions connected to being <BR>>> with
friends in extremely difficult situations.<BR>>><BR>>>
john<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> http://JohnEngle.net<BR>>>
email: john@johnengle.net<BR>>> P.O. Box 337<BR>>> Hershey,
Pennsylvania 17033<BR>>> tel.
202-236-6532<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>>From:
Brendan McKeague <BR>>>>Reply-To: OSLIST <BR>>>>To:
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR>>>>Subject: Re: There is a river
flowing now very fast<BR>>>>Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 08:26:54
+0800<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>"Banish the word
'struggle' from your attitude and your vocabulary.<BR>>>>All that
we do now must be done in a sacred manner and in
celebration.<BR>>>>aahhh....thank you so much
Kairi<BR>>>><BR>>>>What a moment to receive this gift -
the start of a brand new <BR>>>>day...beautiful and
inspiring...today I will let go a wee bit more...<BR>>>>I am about
to depart for a day's 'space-making' in a maximum security
<BR>>>>prison with long-term offenders..<BR>>>>I will be
present and holding space with individual men - my dream is that
<BR>>>>one day there may be more collective open space within such
confinement...<BR>>>>.<BR>>>>Anyone ever opened space in a
prison?<BR>>>><BR>>>>peace to
all<BR>>>>Brendan<BR>>>><BR>>>>*<BR>>>>*<BR>>>>==========================================================<BR>>>>OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR>>>>------------------------------<BR>>>>To
subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<BR>>>>view the
archives of
oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu:<BR>>>>http://listserv.boisestate..edu/archives/oslist.html<BR>>>><BR>>>>To
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_________________________________________________________________<BR>>>
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FAQs:<BR>>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist<BR>><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Michael
M Pannwitz, boscop eg<BR>Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany<BR>++49-30-772
8000<BR>www.boscop.de www.michaelmpannwitz.de<BR><BR>Check out the new Open
Space World Map now with 309 resident Open Space Workers in 57 countries
(working in a total of 115 countries
worldwide)<BR>www.openspaceworldmap.org<BR><BR>*<BR>*<BR>==========================================================<BR>OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR>------------------------------<BR>To
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color=#7f007f><B><I><FONT face="arial narrow">f i l i
z</B></I><BR><BR><U>www.barakam.blogspot.com</U> <BR><BR><I>"come out of the
circle of time, </I><BR><I>step into the circle of
love"</I><BR><I>Rumi</I><BR><BR><BR><FONT color=#0000ff><U>Start your day
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