<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE></TITLE>
<STYLE type="text/css"><!--
BODY {
margin: 5px 5px 5px 5px;
background-color: #FFFFFF;
}
/*----------Text Styles----------*/
HR { color: #000000}
BODY, TABLE /* Normal text */
{
font-size: 9pt;
font-family: 'Courier New';
font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;
color: #000000;
text-decoration: none;
}
SPAN.RVTS1 /* Heading */
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family: 'Arial';
font-weight: bold;
color: #0000FF;
}
SPAN.RVTS2 /* Subheading */
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family: 'Arial';
font-weight: bold;
color: #000080;
}
SPAN.RVTS3 /* Keywords */
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family: 'Arial';
font-style: italic;
color: #800000;
}
A.RVTS4, SPAN.RVTS4 /* Jump 1 */
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family: 'Arial';
color: #008000;
text-decoration: underline;
}
A.RVTS5, SPAN.RVTS5 /* Jump 2 */
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family: 'Arial';
color: #008000;
text-decoration: underline;
}
SPAN.RVTS6
{
font-size: 10pt;
}
SPAN.RVTS7
{
font-size: 11pt;
}
SPAN.RVTS8
{
font-size: 11pt;
font-family: 'Bookman Old Style';
}
/*----------Para Styles----------*/
P,UL,OL /* Paragraph Style */
{
text-align: left;
text-indent: 0px;
padding: 0px 0px 0px 0px;
margin: 0px 0px 0px 0px;
}
.RVPS1 /* Centered */
{
text-align: center;
white-space: normal;
}
--></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>Hi Paul!</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>Thanks for picking up on this thread fragment. You just very well may motivate me to pick up Stalking the Wild Pendulum from where I left off.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>I have had a hard time reading the book and have many questions. I was rather hoping that the listserv might serve as a resource in helping me find answers to the questions that arose.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>As for the walking through walls bit, while I have trouble imagining myself or anyone else walking through walls. Are there not people alive who do do that or claim to do that?</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>One step towards my belief that that is possible :</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>Yesterday, I had someone over as a guest whose "hum" is so intense, so full when he comes into contact with certain people (for example, me) that as he put it "sparks fly." It was really a rather overwhelming experience. While he did not stay the night, I still feel him at my home right now. Part of him is still here.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>I have trouble making a direct logical link between walking thru walls and yesterday's experience, but I believe there is a connection.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>Keep up the nudging, Paul!</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>Warmly,</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>Raffi</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>_____________________</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> When you use a super-microscope on matter you find that at the</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> micro-level there is in fact no such thing as "matter", rather all you</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> have is a field of energy, lots of space.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> Raffi,</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> Herein Mr. Bentov was somewhat inaccurate (I read that book at least 20 years ago, maybe more, so my recall is very clouded), there have been advances since his time in understanding. Dancing Wu Li Masters among them (Zukav). There is such a thing as matter. What there is, is something deciding what YOU want it to be, particles (matter) or waves (energy). The observer and the observed are in a dance together at that level. There have been some quite marvelous and disconcerting experiments relating to consciousness and the particle/wave form, specifically the slit experiments, which I'll have to find again so I get it right, if your interested. There has also been some marvelous work on the nature of the photon, also disconcerting to many who were look for hard little billiard balls of matter.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> Stalking the Wild Pendulum has a number of very interesting ideas in it but........we don't much operate at the quantum level in our ordinary lives. Not saying our minds don't, but the skin bag of bones and flesh I call "me" doesn't, so I don't get too concerned about it, yet. I'm not able to pass through walls yet by raising my vibratory level to slip between the cracks in the continuum. I think we are pretty well grounded in this reality while we are alive. Haven't seen any bodies levitating thru the air lately, either. Fantasy is wonderful but it is just that, fantasy, so far in our evolution. </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> </SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8>> OS isn't fantasy, it is definitely spiritual and incredibly releasing for those used to the strictures of the usual meeting. Its power arises from the collective wisdom of the small groups making their own choices. Radical thought, that. Anyway, you already know all that so I'll stop. Guess I'll re-read Bentov and see what I think 20 or 25 years later. btw, his little drawings were delightful.</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8> mailto:raffi@bk.ru</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=RVTS8><BR></SPAN></P>
</BODY></HTML>
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
>From Sat Apr 16 08:14:31 2005
Message-Id: <SAT.16.APR.2005.081431.0400.>
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 08:14:31 -0400
Reply-To: john@theexperiment.info
To: OSLIST <OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: john engle <englejohn@hotmail.com>
Subject: rare dialogue in Haiti
In-Reply-To: <42.6750996f.2f90b871@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
Some of you know Fremy Cesar. Here is an article about an os event he did
some months ago, written by one of our colleagues who was present. It will
be among the articles in Beyond Borders' next newsletter.
A RARE COMMUNITY DIALOGUE WITH LOCAL POLICE
by Kent Annan
Relations between Haitian police and most other Haitians are strained, to
put it mildly. There is little trust between police and the community, for
understandable historic and current reasons. Police officers have a
difficult job to begin with, and they are also often under-trained and
underpaid. Though not all are guilty, too many police officers misuse their
power. Says Fremy Cesar, an associate of Beyond Borders and coordinator of
the Apprenticeship in Alternative Education program, “The result is that
police become almost non-human to the rest of the population. We are in a
moment when nobody has confidence in them.”
There is a long history of power being abused in Haiti. During volatile
political times like this, the relationship with police becomes even more
tense. This relationship must improve if a strong democracy and trustworthy
social institutions are to be built.
For this reason, Fremy decided to invite two policemen to one of the
community meetings that he facilitates in the town of Dabòn (a few hours
outside of Port-au-Prince) every few months. The meeting was held just
before Christmas and employed a method called Open Space that allows the
participants to decide on the discussion topics. The broad theme for the
meeting was, “The Role of Leadership and Power in Developing Peace and
Democracy.”
People gathered, put on nametags, and sat in a large circle to begin the
day. About fifty people from the community attended. As everyone introduced
themselves, the two police officers said their names but didn't say what
their jobs were. Then as everyone proposed subjects for the day's
discussion, the two policemen taped up a sheet of paper that said, “The
Relationship between Police and the Population in a Democratic Society.”
Many other subjects were proposed and small circles of chairs were scattered
around the yard in anticipation of discussions about education or politics
or a hundred other possibilities. But when people discovered who these men
were, the rest of the circles quickly started to empty. Eventually everyone
moved to join the discussion with the policemen.
After each police officer said a quick word of introduction, the circle was
opened for discussion. People did not wait long to get to the heart of the
matter:
“Police are thieves. They're only after money.”
“Whenever we see them, we're nervous and scared.”
“We only ever see the police when they arrest someone.”
“So, this is what we think of police. Is it true? Is there any reason we
should see them differently?”
“What can the police do for us? Why should we trust them?”
The police listened to all of these comments and were not defensive. They
admitted some serious mistakes have been made, and everyone in the circle
agreed there was a long way to go. For almost everyone there, it was the
first time they'd ever had the chance to sit and talk with police officers
like this. The conversation lasted for three hours. Everyone listened to
each other. Chairs shifted occasionally to follow the migrating shade.
Nobody went to any of the other meetings proposed for the day. Even when
lunch was announced, nobody left the circle.
After the meeting was over, Fremy said, “It was amazing to see people who
are scared of the police, to see them sit next to police officers and
express their anger and fears and questions. This is an important part of my
work: to create spaces for dialogue like this. The police-people who have a
certain power, power that is reinforced by guns-showed a lot of respect for
the community by putting themselves in a circle where they heard a lot of
hard criticism. And people honored their willingness to be here. The
exchange was honest but respectful. This kind of thing is important for
building a respectful society.”
Participants valued the opportunity and hoped it pointed toward real change
in the future of their relationship with the police. When Fremy later asked
the police what they had thought, one of them said, “I think if you hold
another one of these meetings and don't invite us, we'll be upset.”
http://JohnEngle.blogspot.com - Reflections about Haiti, life, and our work.
http://JohnEngle.info
http://TheExperiment.info
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis !
http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist