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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>I most certainly do not think that I
(nor the US) is always right. I don't believe that debates should take a
right/wrong side. I simply did not understand the thinking that was posted
and I truly wanted to better understand. I'm not sure why you all keep
telling me that others may disagree. I know that and I completely accept
it and want others to state if they disagree. If I didn't feel that way, I
wouldn't even be reading this list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>But......I didn't expect someone to
make me feel as if my opinion didn't matter. I think that when someone
says "we should refrain from verbal tricks" (tricks......what tricks?), that's
saying you shouldn't have said what you did. I don't see any other way
than to take that as "my opinion shouldn't have been expressed"...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Thanks for your apology.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Judy</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=EwingChange@aol.com href="mailto:EwingChange@aol.com">Esther
Ewing</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:52
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Survival of the
Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document face="Palatino Linotype" color=#400080
size=4>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Judy:</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>No one wants you to keep your mouth shut. We are very open to
sharing. And you need to know that when you express your opinion, others may
not agree with you and will say so.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Where did anyone tell you that you shouldn't express your
opinion? I certainly welcome it. </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>And it's not about being right or not being right. It's about the
space on this list being open to all of us expressing
ourselves.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>I don't know how you did it but to me your comments came across
as a statement of fact. Perhaps I misunderstood you. It's awfully easy to
assume feelings or emotions without hearing the tone of voice. So perhaps I
read into your comments that you were saying that you were right and others
were wrong. If I misunderstood you, I'm sorry.</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Esther</STRONG></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>
<DIV>I guess you are saying that I should just keep my mouth shut. I
agree with you that we don't all have to agree and of course we won't.
I, too, was upset by someone stating that they <U>KNOW</U> that long term
democracy will not work in this case. Talk about
"oversimplfied"!! Not only do I disagree, but I don't think one
person's beliefs should be written as fact.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'll go back to staying out of this stuff ........and just get what I
need to learn about OST from this list. It's clear that it is not open
to share......</DIV>
<DIV>Judy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:agneta.setterwall@telia.com
href="mailto:agneta.setterwall@telia.com">Agneta Setterwall</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005
10:26 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Survival of the
Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Judy, <BR>When I read what you have written I feel upset. I
feel upset and hurt by the irony, the aggressiveness, the
selfrighteousness, the oversimplyfied statements. <BR>We are, I believe,
many many persons in the world who in a way love US, and at the same time
are frightened by the role US plays today. We are also frightened by
terrorism and by fundamentalism of all kinds. All kinds.<BR>We don´t have
to agree at all on this list. And, we have to refrain from verbal tricks
if we want this list to be the global open space where we can handle
complexity together.<BR><BR>I might be wrong.<BR>Agneta Setterwall,
Sweden<BR><BR><BR>Spady's wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid003101c50f8c$fb404b20$49bae30a@DSDICO.local
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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>Funda writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"a <STRONG>long term</STRONG> <SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P>democracy </O:P></SPAN></FONT><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>(at least freedom of expression for
everybody) can not be created <STRONG>by
force</STRONG><EM>."</EM></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The big question I have for you to think about is...Who has
<STRONG><U>force</U></STRONG> been used against in the Iraq
war? It isn't the people who are trying to build the democratic
society. The U.S. and it's allies <EM><STRONG>forced</STRONG></EM>
<U>the tyrants</U> out so that the Iraqi people are no longer supressed
and <EM>can</EM> live in long term democracy. So.......how can you
say that it won't work?? You have to break it down to who the
force is being used on. Can the tyrants like Saddam freely express
themselves??........absolutely not. He gave up that right when he
chose to kill innocent people.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I guess "time will tell" if the long term democracy works in Iraq
but at this point, I don't think you can accurately conclude that it
won't......</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for your comments on why we can't <U><EM>discuss</EM></U> 'this
and that' and all have a group hug........do you honestly think that's
even possible with people like Saddam??.....or UBL?
Please.........</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Judy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr
href="mailto:fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr">Funda Oral</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, February 10, 2005 6:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Survival of the Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>from the essay :</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>"The researchers at the Santa
Fe Institute have denominated self-organizing<BR>systems </FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT
color=#008000><STRONG>Complex Adaptive Systems. The key word is
adaptive, which indicates<BR>that the system, be that molecular or
human, is constantly adapting to its<BR>internal and external
environment seeking a better fit</STRONG>,</FONT> a better way
of<BR>getting along in the world. This might also be called learning,
for the<BR>system is not only finding better ways to be, it is also
remembering them<BR>for future use. In short a body of knowledge is
being built which will<BR>enable higher levels of
survival."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT
size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">"Collective consciousness in this
case is not to be confused with deep shared consciousness manifest in
the Jungian archetypes, but rather a functional intelligence that
appeared capable of observing a situation, consider the options, and
then take concerted action – all without a word spoken and in an
incredibly short period of time (minutes). How this works, I don’t
have a clue, but in the situations where the <B><SPAN
style="COLOR: green">collective consciousness</SPAN></B> became
manifest I found myself reminded of the <B><SPAN
style="COLOR: green">behavioral shift</SPAN></B> of the ant colony
when they moved from random search to well ordered columns, bringing
home the tart, all of which seemed to happen with the snap of a
finger. I suppose if ants can do it, humans might be capable as
well."</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P>some reflections on wars, cooperation, open space
etc ;</O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P>I agree that a sudden need or
crises can cause quick self organisation and a shift in
collective consciousness </O:P></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P> (i.e
wars, natural disasters).</O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>However self organisation for
a quick reaction doesn't mean that a <STRONG>healthy</STRONG>
community ( democracy, peace, long term cooperation,
civilization)</FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>has been
built.</FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>I studied business and not
psychology or sociology but from life experiences i know
that "fear" prevents</FONT> <FONT
color=#0000ff>a open space, a <STRONG>long term</STRONG>
</FONT></O:P></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>democracy </FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>(at least freedom of expression
for everybody) can not be created <STRONG>by
force</STRONG><EM>.</EM></FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>Wars are different then
natural disasters as they are made by
human.</FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>Survival should be
the easiest achievement when a group of human being comes
together. So the big question for me is why we are still at that
level </FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>after </FONT></O:P></SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>14M years? why we can not discuss
how we can develop alltogether in peace, joy and
richness? why we don't discuss how we
can </FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>establish a better cooperation,
better ways of exchange among different cultures, religions,
regions, countries etc ?</FONT></O:P></SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT color=#0000ff>Funda</FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:jack@designinglife.com
href="mailto:jack@designinglife.com">Jack Ricchiuto</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:20 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Survival of the Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>
<P align=left><FONT size=2>Reflecting the way ecologists today are
starting to redefine "fitness", author Robert Ulanowicz defines
fitness as “the </FONT><FONT size=2>ability of a species to play a
role in the web of ecological processes.”</FONT></P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jack</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>~~~~~~~~~~</DIV>
<DIV>jack ricchiuto</DIV>
<DIV>two.one.six/three.seven.three/seven.four.seven.five</DIV>
<DIV><A title=http://www.designinglife.com/
href="http://www.designinglife.com/">www.designinglife.com</A> / <A
title=http://www.appreciativeleadership.org/
href="http://www.appreciativeleadership.org/">www.appreciativeleadership..org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>------------Original Message------------</DIV>
<DIV>From: Steve Gawron <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
title=mailto:gawron@megsinet.net
href="mailto:gawron@megsinet.net"><gawron@megsinet.net></A></DIV>
<DIV>To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
title=mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A></DIV>
<DIV>Date: Wed, Feb-9-2005 6:02 PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Re: Survival of the Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV>Hello Don and all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is an interesting book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi which
supports that</DIV>
<DIV>concept of survival of ideas in a Darwinian context.
The book is called</DIV>
<DIV>"Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience", ISBN
0-06-016253-8</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In brief, a "flow" experience is akin to reading a book you
cannot put down.</DIV>
<DIV>I hope you enjoy the read.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Steve Gawron</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV>From: "Don Ferretti" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
title=mailto:dferrett@placer.ca.gov
href="mailto:dferrett@placer.ca.gov"><dferrett@placer.ca.gov></A></DIV>
<DIV>To: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
title=mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"><OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU></A></DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:34 PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Survival of the Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> I can give you a lot of detail to back this up but I
will not take up</DIV>
<DIV>> air time here to do that. I just wanted to say that I
know for a fact</DIV>
<DIV>> that the "survival of the fittest" mantra was not even
spoken by Darwin.</DIV>
<DIV>> But, his whole body of work seems to have been boiled
down to that idea.</DIV>
<DIV>> I have my theory as to why that is. But, if you really
look at all of</DIV>
<DIV>> that work, the role of cooperation, adaptation and
flexibility plays a</DIV>
<DIV>> much more important role. We did not make it this far
through</DIV>
<DIV>> competition, but through pervasive cooperation.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> <A title=http://placer.networkofcare.org/
href="http://placer.networkofcare.org/">http://placer.networkofcare.org</A></DIV>
<DIV>> <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
title=http://www.placer.ca.gov/cfc
href="http://www.placer.ca.gov/cfc">www.placer.ca.gov/cfc</A></DIV>
<DIV>> First 5 - Placer CFC</DIV>
<DIV>> Don Ferretti - Director</DIV>
<DIV>> 530.886.1824</DIV>
<DIV>> 530.886.1810 (fax)</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> *</DIV>
<DIV>> *</DIV>
<DIV>>
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<DIV><FONT lang=0 face="Palatino Linotype" color=#400080 size=4 PTSIZE="14"
FAMILY="SERIF"><B>Esther Ewing<BR>The Change Alliance<BR>330 East 38th St.,
Suite 53K<BR>New York, NY 10016, USA<BR>Telephone: 212-661-6024, Fax:
866-296-6712<BR><BR>Assisting organizations to build capability<BR><A
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FAMILY="SERIF"><U><BR></U>Certified Panoramic Feedback Distributor (360
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FAMILY="SERIF"> <BR>Certified Kolbe Distributor: <A
href="http://www.kolbe.com/">www.kolbe.com</A></FONT><FONT lang=0
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