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Judy, <br>
When I read what you have written I feel upset. I feel upset and hurt
by the irony, the aggressiveness, the selfrighteousness, the
oversimplyfied statements. <br>
We are, I believe, many many persons in the world who in a way love US,
and at the same time are frightened by the role US plays today. We are
also frightened by terrorism and by fundamentalism of all kinds. All
kinds.<br>
We don´t have to agree at all on this list. And, we have to refrain
from verbal tricks if we want this list to be the global open space
where we can handle complexity together.<br>
<br>
I might be wrong.<br>
Agneta Setterwall, Sweden<br>
<br>
<br>
Spady's wrote:
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<div><font color="#0000ff">Funda writes:</font></div>
<div><font color="#0000ff">"a <strong>long term</strong> <span
style="" lang="EN-US"><o:p>democracy </o:p></span></font><span
style="" lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">(at least freedom of
expression for everybody) can not be created <strong>by force</strong><em>."</em></font></o:p></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>The big question I have for you to think about is...Who has <strong><u>force</u></strong>
been used against in the Iraq war? It isn't the people who are trying
to build the democratic society. The U.S. and it's allies <em><strong>forced</strong></em>
<u>the tyrants</u> out so that the Iraqi people are no longer
supressed and <em>can</em> live in long term democracy. So.......how
can you say that it won't work?? You have to break it down to who the
force is being used on. Can the tyrants like Saddam freely express
themselves??........absolutely not. He gave up that right when he
chose to kill innocent people.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I guess "time will tell" if the long term democracy works in
Iraq but at this point, I don't think you can accurately conclude that
it won't......</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As for your comments on why we can't <u><em>discuss</em></u>
'this and that' and all have a group hug........do you honestly think
that's even possible with people like Saddam??.....or UBL?
Please.........</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Judy</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr"
href="mailto:fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr">Funda Oral</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Thursday, February 10, 2005 6:57 AM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Survival of the Cooperative</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>from the essay :</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">"The researchers at the
Santa Fe Institute have denominated self-organizing<br>
systems </font><font face="Times New Roman"><font size="3"><font
color="#008000"><strong>Complex Adaptive Systems. The key word is
adaptive, which indicates<br>
that the system, be that molecular or human, is constantly adapting to
its<br>
internal and external environment seeking a better fit</strong>,</font>
a better way of<br>
getting along in the world. This might also be called learning, for the<br>
system is not only finding better ways to be, it is also remembering
them<br>
for future use. In short a body of knowledge is being built which will<br>
enable higher levels of survival."</font></font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">"Collective
consciousness in this case is not to be confused with deep shared
consciousness manifest in the Jungian archetypes, but rather a
functional intelligence that appeared capable of observing a situation,
consider the options, and then take concerted action – all without a
word spoken and in an incredibly short period of time (minutes). How
this works, I don’t have a clue, but in the situations where the <b><span
style="color: green;">collective consciousness</span></b> became
manifest I found myself reminded of the <b><span style="color: green;">behavioral
shift</span></b> of the ant colony when they moved from random search
to well ordered columns, bringing home the tart, all of which seemed to
happen with the snap of a finger. I suppose if ants can do it, humans
might be capable as well."</font></font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p>some reflections on wars, cooperation, open space
etc ;</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><font
color="#0000ff"><span style="" lang="EN-US"><o:p>I agree that a sudden
need or crises can cause quick self organisation and a shift in
collective consciousness </o:p></span><span style="" lang="EN-US"><o:p> (i.e
wars, natural disasters).</o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">However self organisation for
a quick reaction doesn't mean that a <strong>healthy</strong>
community ( democracy, peace, long term cooperation, civilization)</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">has been built.</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">I studied business and not
psychology or sociology but from life experiences i know
that "fear" prevents</font> <font color="#0000ff">a open space, a <strong>long
term</strong> </font></o:p></span><span style="" lang="EN-US"><o:p><font
color="#0000ff">democracy </font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">(at least freedom of
expression for everybody) can not be created <strong>by force</strong><em>.</em></font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">Wars are different then
natural disasters as they are made by human.</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">Survival should be the easiest
achievement when a group of human being comes together. So the big
question for me is why we are still at that level </font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">after </font></o:p></span><span
style="" lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">14M years? why we can
not discuss how we can develop alltogether in peace, joy and
richness? why we don't discuss how we can </font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">establish a better
cooperation, better ways of exchange among different cultures,
religions, regions, countries etc ?</font></o:p></span><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff"> </font> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p><font color="#0000ff">Funda</font></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="jack@designinglife.com"
href="mailto:jack@designinglife.com">Jack Ricchiuto</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:20 AM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: Survival of the Cooperative</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font size="3">
<p align="left"><font size="2">Reflecting the way ecologists
today are starting to redefine "fitness", author Robert Ulanowicz
defines fitness as “the </font><font size="2">ability of a species to
play a role in the web of ecological processes.”</font></p>
</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Jack</div>
<div> </div>
<div>~~~~~~~~~~</div>
<div>jack ricchiuto</div>
<div>two.one.six/three.seven.three/seven.four.seven.five</div>
<div><a href="http://www.designinglife.com">www.designinglife.com</a>
/ <a href="http://www.appreciativeleadership.org">www.appreciativeleadership..org</a>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div>------------Original Message------------</div>
<div>From: Steve Gawron <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:gawron@megsinet.net"><gawron@megsinet.net></a></div>
<div>To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a></div>
<div>Date: Wed, Feb-9-2005 6:02 PM</div>
<div>Subject: Re: Survival of the Cooperative</div>
<div>Hello Don and all,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>There is an interesting book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
which supports that</div>
<div>concept of survival of ideas in a Darwinian context. The
book is called</div>
<div>"Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience", ISBN
0-06-016253-8</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In brief, a "flow" experience is akin to reading a book
you cannot put down.</div>
<div>I hope you enjoy the read.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Steve Gawron</div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message -----</div>
<div>From: "Don Ferretti" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dferrett@placer.ca.gov"><dferrett@placer.ca.gov></a></div>
<div>To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"><OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU></a></div>
<div>Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:34 PM</div>
<div>Subject: Survival of the Cooperative</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>> I can give you a lot of detail to back this up but I
will not take up</div>
<div>> air time here to do that. I just wanted to say that I
know for a fact</div>
<div>> that the "survival of the fittest" mantra was not
even spoken by Darwin.</div>
<div>> But, his whole body of work seems to have been boiled
down to that idea.</div>
<div>> I have my theory as to why that is. But, if you
really look at all of</div>
<div>> that work, the role of cooperation, adaptation and
flexibility plays a</div>
<div>> much more important role. We did not make it this far
through</div>
<div>> competition, but through pervasive cooperation.</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> <a href="http://placer.networkofcare.org">http://placer.networkofcare.org</a></div>
<div>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.placer.ca.gov/cfc">www.placer.ca.gov/cfc</a></div>
<div>> First 5 - Placer CFC</div>
<div>> Don Ferretti - Director</div>
<div>> 530.886.1824</div>
<div>> 530.886.1810 (fax)</div>
<div>></div>
<div>> *</div>
<div>> *</div>
<div>>
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