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<DIV>I guess you are saying that I should just keep my mouth shut. I agree
with you that we don't all have to agree and of course we won't. I, too,
was upset by someone stating that they <U>KNOW</U> that long term democracy will
not work in this case. Talk about "oversimplfied"!! Not only do I
disagree, but I don't think one person's beliefs should be written as
fact.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'll go back to staying out of this stuff ........and just get what I need
to learn about OST from this list. It's clear that it is not open to
share......</DIV>
<DIV>Judy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=agneta.setterwall@telia.com
href="mailto:agneta.setterwall@telia.com">Agneta Setterwall</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:26
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Survival of the
Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Judy, <BR>When I read what you have written I feel upset. I
feel upset and hurt by the irony, the aggressiveness, the selfrighteousness,
the oversimplyfied statements. <BR>We are, I believe, many many persons in the
world who in a way love US, and at the same time are frightened by the role US
plays today. We are also frightened by terrorism and by fundamentalism of all
kinds. All kinds.<BR>We don´t have to agree at all on this list. And, we have
to refrain from verbal tricks if we want this list to be the global open space
where we can handle complexity together.<BR><BR>I might be wrong.<BR>Agneta
Setterwall, Sweden<BR><BR><BR>Spady's wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid003101c50f8c$fb404b20$49bae30a@DSDICO.local type="cite">
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<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>Funda writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"a <STRONG>long term</STRONG> <SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P>democracy </O:P></SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>(at least freedom of expression for everybody) can not be
created <STRONG>by force</STRONG><EM>."</EM></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The big question I have for you to think about is...Who has
<STRONG><U>force</U></STRONG> been used against in the Iraq war?
It isn't the people who are trying to build the democratic society.
The U.S. and it's allies <EM><STRONG>forced</STRONG></EM> <U>the tyrants</U>
out so that the Iraqi people are no longer supressed and <EM>can</EM> live
in long term democracy. So.......how can you say that it won't
work?? You have to break it down to who the force is being used
on. Can the tyrants like Saddam freely express
themselves??........absolutely not. He gave up that right when he
chose to kill innocent people.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I guess "time will tell" if the long term democracy works in Iraq but
at this point, I don't think you can accurately conclude that it
won't......</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for your comments on why we can't <U><EM>discuss</EM></U> 'this and
that' and all have a group hug........do you honestly think that's even
possible with people like Saddam??.....or UBL? Please.........</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Judy</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr href="mailto:fundaoral@ttnet.net.tr">Funda
Oral</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, February 10, 2005 6:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Survival of the Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>from the essay :</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>"The researchers at the Santa Fe
Institute have denominated self-organizing<BR>systems </FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><FONT size=3><FONT color=#008000><STRONG>Complex
Adaptive Systems. The key word is adaptive, which indicates<BR>that the
system, be that molecular or human, is constantly adapting to
its<BR>internal and external environment seeking a better
fit</STRONG>,</FONT> a better way of<BR>getting along in the world. This
might also be called learning, for the<BR>system is not only finding
better ways to be, it is also remembering them<BR>for future use. In short
a body of knowledge is being built which will<BR>enable higher levels of
survival."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT
size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman">"Collective consciousness in this case
is not to be confused with deep shared consciousness manifest in the
Jungian archetypes, but rather a functional intelligence that appeared
capable of observing a situation, consider the options, and then take
concerted action – all without a word spoken and in an incredibly short
period of time (minutes). How this works, I don’t have a clue, but in the
situations where the <B><SPAN style="COLOR: green">collective
consciousness</SPAN></B> became manifest I found myself reminded of the
<B><SPAN style="COLOR: green">behavioral shift</SPAN></B> of the ant
colony when they moved from random search to well ordered columns,
bringing home the tart, all of which seemed to happen with the snap of a
finger. I suppose if ants can do it, humans might be capable as
well."</FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P>some
reflections on wars, cooperation, open space etc ;</O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P>I agree that a sudden need or crises can cause quick
self organisation and a shift in collective consciousness
</O:P></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P> (i.e wars, natural
disasters).</O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>However self organisation for a quick reaction doesn't
mean that a <STRONG>healthy</STRONG> community ( democracy,
peace, long term cooperation, civilization)</FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>has been built.</FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>I studied business and not psychology or sociology but from
life experiences i know
that "fear" prevents</FONT> <FONT color=#0000ff>a open
space, a <STRONG>long term</STRONG> </FONT></O:P></SPAN><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>democracy </FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>(at least freedom of expression for everybody) can not be
created <STRONG>by force</STRONG><EM>.</EM></FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>Wars are different then natural disasters as they
are made by human.</FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>Survival should be the easiest achievement
when a group of human being comes together. So the big question for
me is why we are still at that level </FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>after </FONT></O:P></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>14M years? why we can not discuss how we can develop
alltogether in peace, joy and richness? why we don't discuss how
we can </FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>establish a better cooperation, better ways of
exchange among different cultures, religions, regions,
countries etc ?</FONT></O:P></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><O:P><FONT
color=#0000ff>Funda</FONT></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN
lang=EN-US><O:P> </O:P></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jack@designinglife.com
href="mailto:jack@designinglife.com">Jack Ricchiuto</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:20 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Survival of the Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3>
<P align=left><FONT size=2>Reflecting the way ecologists today are
starting to redefine "fitness", author Robert Ulanowicz defines fitness
as “the </FONT><FONT size=2>ability of a species to play a role in the
web of ecological processes.”</FONT></P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Jack</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>~~~~~~~~~~</DIV>
<DIV>jack ricchiuto</DIV>
<DIV>two.one.six/three.seven.three/seven.four.seven.five</DIV>
<DIV><A href="http://www.designinglife.com">www.designinglife.com</A> /
<A
href="http://www.appreciativeleadership.org">www.appreciativeleadership..org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>------------Original Message------------</DIV>
<DIV>From: Steve Gawron <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:gawron@megsinet.net"><gawron@megsinet.net></A></DIV>
<DIV>To: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A></DIV>
<DIV>Date: Wed, Feb-9-2005 6:02 PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Re: Survival of the Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV>Hello Don and all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is an interesting book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi which
supports that</DIV>
<DIV>concept of survival of ideas in a Darwinian context. The
book is called</DIV>
<DIV>"Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience", ISBN
0-06-016253-8</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In brief, a "flow" experience is akin to reading a book you
cannot put down.</DIV>
<DIV>I hope you enjoy the read.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Steve Gawron</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV>From: "Don Ferretti" <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:dferrett@placer.ca.gov"><dferrett@placer.ca.gov></A></DIV>
<DIV>To: <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"><OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU></A></DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:34 PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Survival of the Cooperative</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>> I can give you a lot of detail to back this up but I will
not take up</DIV>
<DIV>> air time here to do that. I just wanted to say that I know
for a fact</DIV>
<DIV>> that the "survival of the fittest" mantra was not even
spoken by Darwin.</DIV>
<DIV>> But, his whole body of work seems to have been boiled down
to that idea.</DIV>
<DIV>> I have my theory as to why that is. But, if you really look
at all of</DIV>
<DIV>> that work, the role of cooperation, adaptation and
flexibility plays a</DIV>
<DIV>> much more important role. We did not make it this far
through</DIV>
<DIV>> competition, but through pervasive cooperation.</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> <A
href="http://placer.networkofcare.org">http://placer.networkofcare.org</A></DIV>
<DIV>> <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="http://www.placer.ca.gov/cfc">www.placer.ca.gov/cfc</A></DIV>
<DIV>> First 5 - Placer CFC</DIV>
<DIV>> Don Ferretti - Director</DIV>
<DIV>> 530.886.1824</DIV>
<DIV>> 530.886.1810 (fax)</DIV>
<DIV>></DIV>
<DIV>> *</DIV>
<DIV>> *</DIV>
<DIV>>
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