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<DIV><SPAN class=445055901-08082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>G'day
Chris</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=445055901-08082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=445055901-08082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>today
you wrote:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=445055901-08082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Once when I was
facilitating a group of First Nations people from all over
</SPAN></FONT><st1:State><st1:place><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">British
Columbia</SPAN></FONT></st1:place></st1:State><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> and we were doing
action planning, I invited the group to "come forward to the centre of the
circle, grab five dots and indicate where your passion lay."<SPAN
class=445055901-08082003><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003><FONT color=#0000ff>T</FONT></SPAN>wo older women from
the Carrier Nation started laughing.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>In the Carrier language "do't" (which sounds very much like "dot") is a
very rude term for female anatomy.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>They had a moment of thrilling confusion until they figured out what I
REALLY meant!<SPAN class=445055901-08082003><FONT
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Chris<FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=445055901-08082003>
<DIV><SPAN class=445055901-08082003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Man
you have some great stories; this is priceless!!! You could've had some real
super passionate people on your hands there!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003> </SPAN></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=445055901-08082003>My workmates and I had an Open
Space workshop last week facilitated by Daniel Lebel. Did we get
passionate when it came to convergence. Freedom shock divided the
group. Those in shock were not going to give up their total belief that they had
no power to effect change except through the usual closed space channels.
Others of us, and I was a participant, were exasperated with their lack of
responsiveness. Eventually after a bit of hollering someone announced they were
going to champion an issue. The champions grabbed their issues and convened
meetings, the rest formed a circle and championed freedom shock, and the
whole futility of the exercise because nothing was going to
change!</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=445055901-08082003>It was a sobering experience for
me, and a good reminder of the amazing transformation that is required of our
organisations and systems if they are ever going to be open
space!</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=445055901-08082003>I was reading some old university
notes about soft systems methodology. Heck open space can do in three days
what an encyclopedic dissertation and months of meetings could never do.
The key seems to be this letting go thing. Which while easily said is
probably the greatest lesson I have learned in my short
life.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=445055901-08082003>Not to say I have "arrived" yet. It
took some pretty major life threatening convincing before I could accept life on
life's terms and then let my version of reality go. It's a daily journey. Write
now I'm letting go the fear of writing my personal thoughts in a public
domain.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=445055901-08082003>I'd be keen to hear what the rest
of you think?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=445055901-08082003>All the
Best</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=445055901-08082003>Mike
Copeland</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=445055901-08082003> </SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; mso-no-proof: yes">---<BR>CHRIS
CORRIGAN<BR>Bowen Island, BC, Canada<BR><A
href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com">http://www.chriscorrigan.com</A><BR><A
href="mailto:chris@chriscorrigan.com">chris@chriscorrigan.com</A></SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy; mso-no-proof: yes"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; mso-no-proof: yes">(604)
947-9236<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On
Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Lucy Geão<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, July 15, 2003 7:43
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Res: Languages and Translations
(was: Languages in Europe...)</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable
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width="100%">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Joelle, artur (and all
too)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">do not be worried, the
word "paper" has differents meanings as artur showed but "role" is used
so frequently that I am almost sure that the brazilian people attending
the event understood the confusion between what the
translator did and what you was really intending to say and ,
possibly, smiled. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">lucy<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><I><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">-------Mensagem
original-------</SPAN></FONT></I><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV id=receivestrings>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">De:</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Data:</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Tuesday, July 15, 2003 19:48:30<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Para:</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><I><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Assunto:</SPAN></FONT></I></B><FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
Languages and Translations (was: Languages in
Europe...)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi Joelle and Lucy (and
all)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Joelle
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>Artur--
(...)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>I was quite interested
to observe that the Brazilians listed only roles
of<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>family and
relationships. I suspect, that this is because family
and<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>interpersonal
relationships are far more important in Latin cultures.
But<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>I also
wonder<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>if the word which was
used to translate "roles," (I think something
like<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>"rolas," ) might have a
more-specific meaning in Portugese, so
the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>response
might<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>have been shaped by the
word that was used. What do you
think?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">And Lucy
replyied:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>joelle, the translation
is really an important detail in any place of
the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>word. really the bad
translation of "role" transformed a word that
means<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>"paper" or "part of" (he
plays the part of the monster) into a
swearword<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">>used for some cheap
persons speaking about penis. complicated, you
see?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is really an amazing
story about languages and translations. May I
use<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">that story for other
purposes and quote you both?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I would like to add some
comments:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. I have decided to wait
for an eventual answer from Lucy, as I had
the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">idea that "rola" could have
in Brasil this slang meaning, but I was
not<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">sure. "rola" is indeed a
white bird (turtle-dove, says my Dictionary)
that<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">is used in slang Portugues
to refer only to "female brests", but I
was<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">almost sure of once hearing
it in Brasil with the meaning Lucy
clarified.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. This contains other
lessons. Translators are often not very
good,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">especially if they don't
know the subject they are trying to traslate.
And<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have noticed often that,
in such cases, they don't say "I can't
translate<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">that". They will chose -
especially in oral translation" - a
"similar<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">word". In this case with
devastating effects... I suposed that
the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Brasilians, confused, tryed
to give an answer... as they could... So,
I<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">suspect your conclusion, was
not necessarily correct, Joelle.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3. But even if the
translator knows the meaning of the word he/she
can<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">often do a
"correct<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">word-translation" that is
still useless. "Role" translates into
Portugues,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">as Lucy pointed out, as
"papél", plural "papéis" (the Spanish
"papeles").<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The point is that "papel"
also means "paper", like in "a sheet of paper".
I<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">wonder what the Brasilians
would answer to this possibility, namely if
they<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">were low class and never
heard of "papeis" in this sense....<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4. Contextual translation,
done by someone that knows the subject,
would<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">understant the what should
be translated was not "roles" but "social
roles"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">giving "papéis sociais" that
can not, of course, be confused with sheets
of<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">papers.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">5. Now imagine what would
happen if this was a conversation between an
Arab<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">and a Juif mediated by an
American President, with the help of a
translator<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">without an "absolutely
perfect knowledge" of BOTH languages. Terrible,
I<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">suspect.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">6. My conclusion - if you
era "broadcasting" or publishing a book,
good<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">traslations can be
useful<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">(like in the Brasilian
translation of the User's Guide).. But to
mediate<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"conversations",
translations are NEVER a replacement for
bi-linguism.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">7: I think that people
giving training in a foreign language in a
different<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">country, when that training
must be mediated by a translater, must
always<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">ask very seriously what are
the qualifications of the translator in
the<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">subject of the training and
not only the "translation qualification"
in<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">other
subjects.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">8. I am sure that I could do
a good translation of English to Portuguese
in<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">subjects like management or
information systems. But I am affraid
to<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">confess, Joelle, that I
would be unable to transslate one of your poems,
as<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't understand poetry in
English. And I could very well think that
a<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">turtle-dove was a turtle of
some special species...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Regards<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Artur<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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