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<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>Dear
Michael (Herman)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>I
thank you for your repsonse to my inquiries about the wiki site at <A
href="http://www.openspaceworld.net">www.openspaceworld.net</A> . I respect that
you do not want to continue this conversation here, and yet it it the OS list
that has been a community to me for 6 years and it is where I choose to reply to
you. If I understand you correctly, you have suggested that the wiki site is
like an OST meeting, you have stated the theme: an Open Space for OST
practitioners and their projects and you have stated that the givens can be
sorted out by participating within the wiki site the same as you would have your
participants sort out the givens within an OST meeting.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>My
inquiries on this list came to you because my first response to your invitation
was great excitement, the desire to assist you and the others involved with this
endeavour, the play and this part of the growth of OST. However, I believe in
managing my energy so that I am in a state of joy as much as possible. And so, I
sought clarification about what it is that I am being invited
into.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>When I
facilitate OST meetings, I too work with my clients to get the theme right. AND
I work with them BEFORE the meeting to get the core givens "out on
the table" and not in the realm of implicit assumptions. I do this so that
people can make an informed decision about what they are consenting to
participate in and to contribute their precious life force energy to. I think
informed consent is important.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>And
so, I was seeking the theme and the givens from you so that I could make my
decision. If my decision was yes, I would work diligently from my life force
energy. When I work at something I put a lot of me into it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>And
so, my choice is to not enter the wiki site (or OST meeting) even for this
discussion because in my mind and heart, I have not yet accepted the invitation
to be there.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>So now
about the theme. Should I accept the invitation or not based on the theme? The
word "practitioners" in the theme says to me that this wiki site (OST meeting)
is not for me because I do not see myself as a practitioner. I do not want to be
seen by my clients, as someone who is "practicing". They pay me for working with
OST, they pay me for having knowledge, doing and being. And so the theme of the
meeting with the word "practitioner" stops me from participating. (And in answer
to your question, I do not object to this word being use within the site because
each person within the site works from what they believe in--I simply struggle
with it's use in the theme).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>When I
asked about this, you replied that it is the accepted word in the OST community
because it has been around since 1999 and no one has disagreed with it. For
me, silence does not mean consent. Nor does it mean consent that this is
now how we as facilitators of OST present ourselves to the
world. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>I
thought, it would have been more democratic if Michael and those working on
these sites that represent the OST community would have listed the
"givens" they intend to work with/from and given the community a chance to
say, "yes" this is a "given" for us and "no", this is only an assumption
made and it is not valid for us in how we want to present ourselves to the
world. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>And
then I thought, who is the OST community that would have been the
right one to be in on the discussion. And in my mind, that is the community of
the OST list.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>Would
we have agreed with </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>-the
word practitioner to represent us</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>-that
the site be funded by OSI US who might now through the funding be in a
position of power with the site that should be representing us
all</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>-the
greatest weakness in the site which is that anyone in the world who is on the
internet can go in and change words and any one of us can find ourselves
mis-represented--and maybe even have our mis-represented words quoted in books
and have our professional reputations harmed</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3>?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>The
majority on the list may have agreed with all of this, but we were not
given the opportunity to express how we wanted to be
represented.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>IF <A
href="http://www.openspaceworld.org">www.openspaceworld.org</A> and .net were
private sites, none of the above would be a concern to me. But they are not
private sites--they are intended to represent this OST community to the world.
Even yesterday, with the posting that Alan Stewart made about the Faciliator's
Master Journal site, the journal is about OST and the journal directs its 8,000
readers to <A href="http://www.openspaceworld.org">www.openspaceworld.org</A> as
the way to find out about OST. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000
size=3></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=3>And
so I am wondering Michael if there is still a chance to back this up a bit,
get agreement on the theme and the core givens within the OST community, and
have a democratic process about these very important websites that you and the
others you work with have developed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=260501016-31072003></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Blessings to you and to
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: fuchsia; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
color=#800080>Birgitt<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Birgitt
Williams of Dalar International Consultancy <A
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<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Michael
Herman<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, July 27, 2003 7:09 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: wiki
sites<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT>hello birgitt...<BR></TT></SMALL></P>
<P><SMALL><TT><BR></TT></SMALL></P>
<P><SMALL><TT>Birgitt Williams wrote:</TT></SMALL></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<P>
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<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>Michael (Herman),</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT>
</SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SMALL></SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>I apologize for taking so long to continue this
conversation with you. Life happened and today is my first real computer day
in weeks. </SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...this
is exactly why i want to have this conversation, to do this work, inside of
the wiki space on the website rather than via the oslist. the work we
are doing now in the .NET wiki, me and the others who've already joined in, is
large and longterm. it's not the kind of thing we can do with occasional
oslist postings... we need a place to gather and grow our ongoing plans
and reflections, where gaps in attendance don't create gaps in the work.
also, no one person actually controls those sites and we need to be watching
what happens there so that no vandals or technical troubles do serious damage
to them. some of us are visiting this new space daily to notice and
extend what is there. this is the nature of this ongoing development
work. it takes regular attention and attendance, a continuity that gets
lost in the world of email...<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>I wanted to draft a thorough response regarding the
conversation that we had about the new <A
href="http://www.openspaceworld.net">www.openspaceworld.net</A> site.
</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>your thoroughness and
depth of attention would add much to the site, if you would just add to the
site... <grin><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>I notice that you have posted our OS list
conversation on that site. For now, I feel that the right place for my
posting is on the OS list because it involves our OS list community--and I
am fine if you also post it on the website in your questions
section.</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></BLOCKQUOTE><SMALL><TT><FONT
color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>I admire all that you are doing with the websites,
your energy and passion, commitment and discipline. I wanted to be very
clear about that so that you will hopefully see that where I am coming from
is a supportive place. I note your invitations for us to participate in the
websites and I would like to do this but first I seek clarity about whether
it is the right place for me to commit some of my energy. This e-mail is
about seeking that clarity and I will be pleased to have the discussion that
helps me to decide.</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL> </P>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<P><SMALL><TT></TT></SMALL> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>...and i thnk that the
only way to decide if you will participate in the work that is unfolding at
.NET is to go there... there is no discussion to be had here... the space at
.NET is open. you are welcome there. it is not a conversation,
really, there either. it is the development of a working space for
practitioners. an unfolding project plan. i think you don't like this
word, practitioner, but i don't know what else to call people who are
practicing ost. perhaps you prefer 'leaders of open space events and
projects.' <BR><BR>in any event, the .NET space is a facility for those
who are practicing, leading, opening to post the proceedings from their events
there. it is a space that community groups and project teams can use to
work on their own, local projects. it's a space where those groups can
benefit from a free, open and simple online workign space AND where we all can
benefit from watching them unfold their work in an ongoing open space way.
this space is obviously not appropriate for every group or leader.
it is also likely that not all groups will unfold in perfectly beautiful
ways. what does happen there will be real, and that should be enough to
be interesting.<BR><BR>one of the project groups hosted there in the .NET
space is the work of maintaining that .NET space. it is in that space
that we are working out how .NET works. it is a work in progress and
only those who show up there to do the work are going to be able to shape that
work. anybody who cares about what our online spaces look like needs to
show up there and *work with* other people there to give it shape. the
proceedings of any open space session are written by those who actually attend
the session. in this case, the session in meeting in the .NET wiki.
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.openspaceworld.net/wiki.cgi">http://www.openspaceworld.net/wiki.cgi</A>?<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>I also choose to recognize that by being the
webmaster for the community Open Space websites, that you are in a position
of power. From that position, by shaping the "givens" or what is not
negotiable, you have great power in shaping how Open Space Technology is
perceived in the world now and into the future. This is neither good nor
bad. It simply is power of position added to the power that we all have
including power of presence and power of communication. I believe that you
will hold and carry out this power of position well, with recognition that
many people rely on the reputation of OST for their ongoing business as
independent consultants who have focused their business on
OST.</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT></TT></SMALL> </P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>I know that our participants in OST meetings go
through the same thing. They receive an invitation and then they have to
make a decision about whether they choose to attend or not. Offering as
much information in the invitation as possible is helpful so that they can
make an informed choice. And so, I was seeking more information about what I
was being invited into. I am not wanting to interupt your opening circle,
but wanting to go back to what this is and what it is not so that I can make
an informed choice.</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...yes,
i am the keeper of the .ORG and .NET websites. at least technically,
that is. but these sites have always run in open space. from the
beginning, i have actively invited everyone to take responsibility for the
site and the story. i have perhaps taken most direct responsibility and
so i have perhaps had more of what i care about reflected in the site, which
is to say that the power i have has come through my own practice of passion
bounded by responsiblity. but many other names are there with mine,
because many others have posted their own articles, tools, stories and other
bits into the old bulletin board and/or the new wiki spaces, in response to my
invitations. and everyone gets full credit for what they have
contributed. <BR><BR>to the extent that there are some pages at .ORG that say
what open space *is* then yes, these pages do something to shape that story in
the world. that so many people commented on these pages when they were
first posted in 1999 (i think), that so many are using these few pages around
the world as handouts to clients, and that members of the oslist have chosen
to take responsibility for translating them into a dozen languages tells me
that they fairly well reflect what we as a worldwide practice community
believe OST to be in the world. <BR><BR>the invitation to .ORG has been and
continues to be this: come post your stories, your contact info, your
tools, your links, your training info, etc. so that people everywhere
can find you and your OST wisdom. we give you space and access to the
world with full credit and attribution and contact potential and you give us
the use of your wisdom. <BR><BR>the invitation to .NET has been and
continues to be this: come and use the space to support your
project/community work in OST. post your notes and followup plans and
then keep working them out there, with your local partners and participants
there for as long as it's useful to you. we'll give you the space to
work, you give us the chance to watch you work.<BR><BR>within the .NET space,
i have begun to document the development of the .ORG space, as one of the
projects unfolding in the .NET wiki. i like to think that this is me
leading by example, using our online workspace to convene my own workgroup, on
an issue that i am passionate about, the maintenance and development of the
OSW websites. <BR><BR>it is not a small project and not a small
responsibility, i think, this ongoing tidying of a space with so many voices
and stories accumulated now. it is a project that i think is too big
for the oslist... because many on the list do not care to be involved in it,
do not have the time or interest in getting to understand the structure and
histories of the website stories, are not willing to learn how to edit and
organize information in a wiki website, and/or do not have the time or
inclination to take direct hands-on responsibility for posting things on the
site. <BR><BR>i also think that, while it may be interesting to discuss
the content and structure of the websites on the list, to invite discussion
about the websites in a forum where many participants are not taking direct
responsibility for the work of the sites is not consistent with our practice
of keeping passion and responsibility closely linked, is not really fair to
the many who've worked on the site over the years, and not particularly
helpful to us in moving forward. <BR><BR>i very much want questions and
comments about the site, i've always invited and encouraged and responded to
same. i've dealt with them directly in the past, in private
emails and these have done much to shape the sites. what i want to do
now is take that community conversatoin public, make in accessible to the
whole community, AND still continue to invite people to take direct
responsibility for their website passions. i have not much interest in
talking about the sites with those not willing or able to be directly involved
with the community of folks who are personally and collectively learning their
way into this piece of online work. it's just too hard for me to do this
in any way other than passion bounded by responsibility. <BR><BR>and so
i don't feel particularly powerful in this position at all, i actually am
feeling quite overwhelmed by the amount of attention that i'm bringing to the
various inquiries and learnings and experiments that are happening now, IN the
wikis that have been set up AND at the same time i am very happy for the
company and care that many have and are now bringing to this work. i
think we are making an important expansion of community capacity that will be
well worth the current stretching for me personally.<BR><BR>i'm glad for you
and anyone else to join us, but for better or worse, we are gathering at the
.NET wiki, not the oslist. what is being done on the wiki sites is NOT a
substitute for the OSLIST. i would suggest that the oslist is our big
news circle and that the wiki is a place to document smaller breakout sessions
being held around the world. whoever comes to our little breakout
session is very welcome and is the right people. <BR><BR>in any
openspace event, we get only the topic and the name(s) of conveners, no
givens, no speeches.... it's up to every participant to surf by the sessions
they think they are interested in and see what is happening, see if it calls
them, see if they want to join that particular piece fo work. law of two
feet. or in this case two clicks. everybody's welcome to join us
and nobody has to. and the work will continue to be shaped by those who
do join us.<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>There are always "givens" or non-negotiables in
life, whether we like them or not. Collectives of individuals
(organizations) run into real problems when the "givens" are implicit rather
than explicit. This leads to the making of assumptions that are not useful.
And implicit assumptions, in my experience, lead to the potential for misuse
of and misunderstanding of power. This happened to me within the <A
href="http://www.openspaceworld.org">www.openspaceworld.org</A> site which I
brought to your attention. The pages that are "read only" shape the
tone/philosophy of the site and how it presents OST to the
world.</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...some
.ORG pages are read only because they are too big to be edited directly by any
one person. some of them hold together the structure that makes it
possible to access LOTS of information by relatively simple and direct paths.
the implicit assumption you seem to be making is that I wrote them and
invited you to come edit MY writing. i think that this assumption is not
quite right. <BR><BR>as i've said above and before, the site is the
authorship of many. it's just not appropriate to go in and edit that.
it's also not right to leave the site totally open so that any
individual can push their way to the front of years of collaboration and
development and story-sifting. that is why i want to grow a development
workgroup. when a workgroup is established and stabilized, then more of
the pages can be opened for comment, because the group will be able to monitor
and secure the content, balance and maintain access, simplicity clarity,
completeness. in the absence of community solution and security,
technical solution must suffice, for now at least. what's more,
"not-read-only" is REALLY open and i just don't have the time and energy to be
the only one defending these pages against vandalism and also to be constantly
on call and on the spot to explain why these pages got to be this way.
in short, there is much community history in these pages and i'm feeling
some responsibility for passing on that history in an organized, explicit, and
deep community way. <BR><BR>when we first opened up the whole of the
.ORG site for editing, .NET did not yet exist. now that it does, i have
shifted my attention to growing that and the workgroup there, so that group
can eventually take full and shared responsibility for unfolding the
.ORG site. that said, .ORG is by NO means a closed space.
<BR><BR>there is, plenty of space at .ORG to post story blurbs, contact
info, resource tools, articles, links etc.... it's the easiest way to join the
work there... just play enough to get your name in teh directory, to post a
story or whatever... it's a way to be involved and mentioned and contributing
without taking on more responsibility. another implicit assumption seems
to be that i am in control of the websites, and i think that's just not the
case. if that were true, we would not have 12 languages there and i
wouldn't be spending as much time on the whole project as i am. it's
really more than i care to deal with. when you show up and want to edit
some of these core pages, i want to know who will edit the other eleven.
i'm not controlling the content of the site and also not inviting
individuals to unilaterally edit community work. <BR><BR>these questions
you're asking here have been helpful in making this clear. i am grateful
and thank you for that. i'm sorry if my previous messages didn't make
this community bit clear. i'm also wishing that these questions were
originally posted into (and now being answered in) the .NET wiki, where they'd
be part of the permanent community record. i don't htink i have energy
to put them there just now. over the years, as people have stepped up to
do things (ask questions, post languages, etc.), i have stepped up to help
them. now i'm really wanting to use the wiki spaces to do that asking,
shaping and helping more openly, answering questions only once and making it
clearer to everyone where our growing expertise lives, in many bodies and
email boxes other than mine. <BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT></TT></SMALL> </P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>When you invited us to contribute into that site as
a wiki site, it appeared that ALL was open to editing and change. And then I
ran right into the "givens" that were implied but never clearly stated,
because the very pages I wanted to put changes on where the ones that were
"read only". You replied saying that this was what gave the site its
structure and so it could not be changed except through you. In this circle
of people that we are, there are 360 degrees of perspectives of what OST is
and how to present it. It is no surprise that my perspective is different
than yours. Both are valid. However, one perspective (may be shared by many)
is created for the site by structuring the implicit "givens" on that site. I
think if it was the site of one individual rather than the community site,
this would be fine. But, with a community site (assuming the community is
the community on the OS list),
</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>I would say that the "givens" should have a chance
for conversation and agreement so that the site is truly representative of
the community. Maybe you did initiate this discussion to let us help
in shaping the givens and I missed it. If so, I apologize for raising
this.</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>so
i hope this clarifies that the sites are indeed 'community' affairs, community
assets and community products, and that the 'community' that is invited to
comment on them is the community that actually shows up to take responsibility
for building and maintaining those spaces, not just commenting via the OSLIST.
the invitation is primarily to add to this body of community work, not
try to edit what the community has produced so far. anyone can
contribute their stories, articles, contact info, tools, etc... and anyone can
join the group that is beginning to learn how to give all of that
information primary shape and clear accessibility on the wiki.
<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT></TT></SMALL> </P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>So now to the <A
href="http://www.openspaceworld.net">www.openspaceworld.net</A> site. I want
to participate if it is a place that is in alignment with my energy and I
want to support your work. A question for me is, is my perspective about OST
and how to work with OST welcome on the site?
</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>.NET is not really
for talking about OST... it's for using it, doing it, showing it. so i
don't think our perspectives about ost are going to matter so much. if
you have groups working in os that want to work online after the event, then
you can offer them that online working space, same as any other. to the
extent that you stay involved iwth them or even if you can do prep work with
them online, we will all learn something aobut how you practice. that
will be a great gift to all of us, i thnk.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>Another question for me is will I accept the
invitation to participating in the site, when there is something in the
invitation that is philisophically different to what I believe in and
different to the message I want to give to the world about my work with OST.
This took me to asking you why the site focuses on OST "practitioners". In
using this on the splash page, there is already a philisophical shaping, an
implicit "given". I in no way want to challenge your (or others) personal
use of that word for your own business. My challenge arises when this is an
implicit given on the community site. I personally do not want to be viewed
by my clients as someone who is practicing OST. And so, my question arose
for you about the "givens" for the site. Who has set them, what are they,
and can they be changed? I know that there are thousands of people in the
world involved with OST and only about 300 on this list but the list is what
we have as what can be perceived as a community. I recommend that the
"givens" for the community Open Space Websites be discussed and decided on
on this list. I appreciate your invitation to sort out the "givens" within
the wiki site, but that does not seem to be the place to sort out the
overarching givens that govern the whole site (those that are already in
place).</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>i've
discussed this some on the .NET wiki. the site is for practitioners and
the projects they will do there and the people they will invite to work on
those projects in that space... i know we have some differences in our
approaches and languages, but i'm not clear if you object to the word
practitioner everywhere or just on the splash page. as i say, i need to
take up these questions within the space that has been opened for them where
the real work can get done, rather than out in the lobby where many might be
lured to offer some passion without taking equivalent responsibility...
so i'm glad to have this continue, but let's go inside and post
something on the wall, so that those who share our passion for this story can
join us and go into this more deeply, and the larger connections that happen
on the list can continue as well. we can always bring news of our
progress back to this larger circle and invite others to come into the wiki
for a second, third, fourth... session. <BR><BR>i hope this helps and
hope that it will continue to unfold at <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.openspaceworld.NET/network/wiki.cgi?OpenSpaceWorldNET">http://www.openspaceworld.NET/network/wiki.cgi?OpenSpaceWorldNET</A><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=midMABBKIBOMGBFGLEFAMADCEPKEAAA.birgitt@mindspring.com
type="cite">
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT></TT></SMALL> </P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003>I think this is such important work that you are
leading in Michael, and I see the power in it to deeply affect all who are
working with OST now and into the future. I thank you and I hope that you
find my contribution here to be helpful.
</SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL></P></DIV>
<P><SMALL></SMALL></P>
<DIV>
<P><SMALL><TT><FONT color=#000080 size=3><SMALL><SPAN
class=560053019-21072003></SPAN></SMALL></FONT></TT></SMALL> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR>many thanks, michael<BR></P>
<P><BR><BR></P>
<P><SMALL><TT>-- <BR><BR>Michael Herman<BR>Michael Herman Associates<BR>300
West North Avenue #1105<BR>Chicago IL 60610 USA<BR>(312) 280-7838<BR><BR><A
class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.michaelherman.com">http://www.michaelherman.com</A> -
consulting & publications<BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.globalchicago.net">http://www.globalchicago.net</A> -
laboratory & playground<BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.openspaceworld.org">http://www.openspaceworld.org</A> -
worldwide open space<BR><BR>...inviting organization into
movement<BR><BR><BR></TT></SMALL></P><SMALL><TT><BR></TT></SMALL>* *
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