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<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4>Thank you, Tova. You are
touching my heart in a way that, perhaps, only you could do - from your vantage
point.</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4>At the risk of being overly
simplistic, I am seeing that the Israelites are saying "this place is holy to
our God and it belongs to us" and the Palestinians are saying "this place is
holy to our God and it belongs to us". Am I seeing this correctly - in a
very simple way?</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4>I also attempted to subscribe
to the "alternative" news outlined below and it was kicked back as not being a
viable name for yahoo. Any information on that?</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4>Blessings,</FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM><FONT face=Garamond color=#800080 size=4>Toni</FONT></EM></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #800080 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=averbuch@post.tau.ac.il
href="mailto:averbuch@post.tau.ac.il">Averbuch</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 18, 2002 9:11
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: a word from a ferind</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>dear friends,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I had sent this fallowing mail, to what I thought
to be Dan Chay's address, on the 13 of May. It came back to me today. Since I
clearly remember hesitation on my part whether this contents belong to the
list or not I collect ,now, from the mails Koos, and Joelle and Julie (and the
fact that it made it all the way back...) that this may be the time and
place:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Dan,<BR><BR> thank you
very much for your response and recognition it is well taken<BR>and
appreciated.I have some responses I would like to share with you as a<BR>way
of deepening the conversation:<BR><BR>You
write:<BR>
<And I still wonder also if the Israeli military (members of
it)<BR>perpetuated massacres themselves. I am currently fairly sure
they<BR>perpetuated horror. It concerns me less whether any perpetuators
of<BR>horror Palestinian or Israeli were by some justification "right" to
do<BR>so or not, compared to whether perpetuating horrors on others will
help<BR>anyone achieve their higher aims.><BR><BR>you see, I have no
interest in who is "right" either.<BR> I assume each and every person has
the right to live their life according<BR>to their story so the only thing
that does interest me is the peace making<BR>story.<BR><BR>you
wrote:<BR> <It seems to me your neighbors and you and the
different Palestinians<BR>have closely-felt experiences to help shape your
understandings in a way<BR>that I do not. I imagine for some that has
been a mixed benefit. It<BR>looks from here to me like living so close
to the edge of survival has<BR>resulted in many of both Israeli and
Palestinian people not being able<BR>acknowledge and understand other peoples'
perspectives very well.<BR>For some time I have sought also to understand the
horrors felt by<BR>Palestinians. There is, for example, a mailing list by Ali
Abunimah that<BR>provides alternative (to US mainstream news) selections of
news and<BR>analysis about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that can be joined
by<BR>sending a blank email to <A
href="mailto:aliabunimah-subscribe@yahoogroups.com..">aliabunimah-subscribe@yahoogroups.com..</A>><BR><BR>
It may surprise you but I think this closeness sometimes makes you
num<BR>and sometimes more of a human because you see the suffering of
the<BR>Palestinians every day as well, and you hear directly and you read - It
is<BR>more real and more personal. If you happen to be a person that can not
hate<BR>,you ake and you grievea lot until you learn ,at times, to transform
it to<BR>hope and belief and what this list calls
"love".<BR> I do not see our war in the Middle east as a war
between Jews and Arab<BR>or a war between Israelis and Palestinians. I see
it, for many years now,<BR>more as a war between: hope and love fighters
and despaired/consumed by hate<BR>fighters; life fighters and death fighters
on both sides<STRONG>.<BR> It is not a boarders type of war
it is the core we are fighting for</STRONG> <BR>because The Israeli-Jewish
dream land of the heart and prayers will always<BR>be "the land of Israel" (
they will be-longing there), and the Palestinian<BR>dream land is the land of
plantain ( they fell the be-long there). since<BR>this is the exsect piece of
land there is only a practical question: can we<BR>respect and trust one
another enough to live in two neighboring countries and<BR>give up our dreams/
This is a lot of grief to go threw even for those who<BR>what and an almost
impossible leap of trust for all concerned.<BR><BR> <It
seems to me it is these kinds of perspective WITH what we learn
from<BR>various Israeli and other perspectives that will help us understand
more<BR>profoundly each others' pain -- by way of beginning to
better<BR>understand the complexity of the whole and to shift from vicious
to<BR>virtuous cycles of interaction><BR>I definitely agree. but I didn't
think this is for the list type of material,<BR>I am afraid to shut space for
others what do you think?<BR><BR>with love and respect<BR>Tova Averbuch<BR><A
href="mailto:averbuch@post.tau.ac.il">averbuch@post.tau.ac.il</A><BR><BR>-----
Original Message -----<BR>From: Heidi and Dan Chay <<A
href="mailto:chay@alaska.com">chay@alaska.com</A>><BR>To: <<A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>><BR>Sent:
Thursday, May 09, 2002 6:45 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Word from a
friend<BR><BR><BR>> Hi Tova,<BR>><BR>> In response to Artur, you
wrote:<BR>><BR>> >><BR>> As a way of bringing this letter to a
close I would like to share two<BR>> thing from last few days in my
personal, private life :<BR>> 1/ Yesterday, two streets away from were I
live there was a suicide<BR>> bombing in a snooker club. 15 civilians,
unarmed, unprotected, half of<BR>> them 55 years old and above, were
murdered. 50 wounded,12 of them<BR>> sevirly. It could have been me, or
you. Is that a "massacre or not"?<BR>><BR>> 2/ Sometimes I envy people
who live in situations in which there is<BR>> right and wrong in a clear
cut way. I don't believe I do. My 14 year old<BR>> daughter, Shira, had
spoken to me few days ago with deep reflection in<BR>> her voice ( after
arguing with kids her age who hold extreme opinions)<BR>> :"you know, Imma
(Mommy' in Hebrew), I do not understand how people can<BR>> be extreemly
leftist or exrteemly rightist in this situation" when I<BR>> questioned
'why' she answered: " because the only sane position in this<BR>> mass,
were every one is right and does wrong, in not to be sure that you<BR>>
know, and to look for what is right". that made my heart move.<BR>>
<<<BR>><BR>> To me, your example of the suicide bombing is a
massacre. The pain and<BR>> horror of that reaches all the way here to me
in Alaska.<BR>><BR>> Your daughter's words also strike me with feeling,
wonder, and sense of<BR>> wisdom.<BR>><BR>> And I still wonder also
if the Israeli military (members of it)<BR>> perpetuated massacres
themselves. I am currently fairly sure they<BR>> perpetuated horror. It
concerns me less whether any perpetuators of<BR>> horror Palestinian or
Israeli were by some justification "right" to do<BR>> so or not, compared
to whether perpetuating horrors on others will help<BR>> anyone achieve
their higher aims.<BR>><BR>> It seems to me your neighbors and you and
the different Palestinians<BR>> have closely-felt experiences to help shape
your understandings in a way<BR>> that I do not. I imagine for some
that has been a mixed benefit. It<BR>> looks from here to me like
living so close to the edge of survival has<BR>> resulted in many of both
Israeli and Palestinian people not being able<BR>> acknowledge and
understand other peoples' perspectives very well.<BR>><BR>> I find our
US mainstream press gives a fairly homogenous picture of<BR>> middle east
conflict -- and Bush fairly well reflects that picture, I<BR>> think,
unfortunately. It is, among other things, a mainstream picture<BR>>
that draws vividly and often the horrors felt by Israelis and weakly
and<BR>> infrequently the horrors felt by Palestinians.<BR>><BR>> For
some time I have sought also to understand the horrors felt by<BR>>
Palestinians. There is, for example, a mailing list by Ali Abunimah
that<BR>> provides alternative (to US mainstream news) selections of news
and<BR>> analysis about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that can be joined
by<BR>> sending a blank email to <A
href="mailto:aliabunimah-subscribe@yahoogroups.com">aliabunimah-subscribe@yahoogroups.com</A>.<BR>><BR>>
It seems to me it is these kinds of perspective WITH what we learn
from<BR>> various Israeli and other perspectives that will help us
understand more<BR>> profoundly each others' pain -- by way of
beginning to better<BR>> understand the complexity of the whole and to
shift from vicious to<BR>> virtuous cycles of interaction. I see you
as a heroine in your efforts<BR>> to cultivate such
openness.<BR>><BR>> Love and best wishes,<BR>><BR>> Dan
Chay<BR>><BR>> *<BR>> *<BR>>
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