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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My responses are below, following the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>******************************************************</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peggy</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=artsilva@mail.eunet.pt href="mailto:artsilva@mail.eunet.pt">Artur F.
Silva</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 17, 2001 11:23
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Self-Organization???? (to
Peggy)</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>Thank you very much for your
further explanations, Peggy. I think I will need <BR>some time to reflect and
try to digest the information. In the meanwhile I have <BR>one more question
and some comments to further the dialogue. <BR><BR>At 17:14 17-12-2001,
Peggy Holman wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=arial size=2>I seem to recall
that you have an information systems background, as do I. In the early
days, were you ever in discussions about which programing language is best
for a given task? Often, the conclusion we'd reach is that it is
possible to program anything in any language. While some languages are
more conducive to particular tasks than others, in the hands of a skilled
programmer, it is possible to make anything work. </FONT>I think it is the
same with methods.<FONT face=arial size=2></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></FONT>Yes I do and I understand your point - one can use different
programming<BR>languages with success. But I am note sure if the same is true
of using<BR>different programming methods (say "spaghetti programming" versus
structured <BR>programming versus object oriented programming). So I would
expect methods<BR>to be one of the factors or success - not the only one of
course, but one of them. <BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-----------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=arial size=2>And yet, I can take the similar circumstances and
put different facilitators in them using the same method and get results with
widely differing impact. Further, I believe I could take the same
facilitator, use different methods and get similar results.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT><BR>Sorry, I can't understand the last sentence - similar to the
previous sentence (different<BR>impacts) or similar impacts? </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>*********************************</FONT><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>I am offering 2 variations:</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. The same situation, the same
method, handled by facilitators with different beliefs will lead to
different results. The point being that the different beliefs have a
strong impact.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. The same situation, different method,
same facilitator will lead to similar results. In other words, the
beliefs of the facilitator have the greater impact, no matter the
method.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>**********************************</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face=arial size=2>I don't have
empirical evidence for this. It is an opinion reached by observation
of, discussion with, and reading of comments from a variety of people using
a variety of methods. I think what started me down this path was the
deep conviction of virtually every expert that their way was the most
effective. One thing they all had in common was an expectation that
what they were doing worked and worked profoundly. Additionally, there
was the evidence of talking with people using these same methods in similar
circumstances and getting much less powerful results. What was
different? I think this is fertile ground for
research.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Have you obtained your information mainly
from the change agents or have you <BR>checked that out with the people of the
"changed organization"? The problem is <BR>that the facilitator (and even the
sponsor) can be biased - for a matter of research<BR>it would be interesting
to talk with people at various levels of the organizations<BR>that were
subjected to change. (By the way I don't like to use the expression I<BR>have
used "organizations subjected to change" as they must always be "agents"
<BR>and not only "subjects" for any profound change to take place).
<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"> <FONT face=arial size=2>My untested
theory is the factors involved in success include sponsor beliefs
(particularly around their passion for and audaciousness of the desired
future, sense of invitation to particpate, generosity of spirit),
facilitator beliefs (particularly around people's capacity to act wisely for
the good of the whole as well as themselves), and method. I'd love to
hear other perspectives on this.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR>I tend to agree with you. What confused me at first was the fact that
all 18 methods<BR>could be equally effective. <BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>--------------------------------------------------</FONT><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"> <FONT face=arial size=2>By the way,
the reason Open Space is so core to my own practice is it makes it so
visible that people have the capacity to create what they want. I have
seen other methods get people there but there's something so elegant in OS's
simplicity in enabling people to live this experience. And at a
practical level, there's something that Harrison mentions a lot. If I
can accomplish the same thing with a lot less work, doesn't that make sense
to do? </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR>I agree with the elegance. But I think
the point is not only elegance.<BR><BR>If Harrison's statement that "less is
more" is true than I tend to think that<BR>"more is less" is also true. So I
have doubts about methods where the facilitator <BR>"facilitates too much" as
they tend to disempower people (except the facilitator
<BR>himself).<BR><BR>Further I tend to agree with Lewin that to change an
organization first the old <BR>rules and procedures must be unfrozen. And I
think OST is more apt to unfreeze <BR>previous rules and procedures that some
other methods that are more "directive". </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>***********************************************</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I agree with your point about
directiveness. In a funny way, it led to my conclusion about the power
of the facilitator's beliefs. I discovered an interesting irony when
working with the different contributors to my book. I kept asking
questions about where the power was. 100% saw power increasingly
belonging to participants. Even those that I perceieved to be the most
directive saw themselves as letting go of power and creating greater
openness. When I started exploring this, I realized how much it has to
do with their current knowledge base. To state this in an extreme way,
if all I know is dictatorship and someone invites me to offer an opinion, that
creates more freedom. If I've never seen even greater freedom (like
an OS), just asking is a breakthrough. So, by my standards, with Open
Space as a context, just inviting an opinion is quite
directive. To those experiencing this new freedom for the first
time, it is a great innovation and can transform.
</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
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