<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>Artur writes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I read this initial message about the turtle and though it was very well
<BR>observed, and I prepared myself to see the answers. Who would speak <BR>for
the ones that have no voice in the "council circle"; the ones who's <BR>land one
wants to occupy or to bomb (the ones that were once the<BR>native Americans,
later from Vietnam, later from Serbia, and today are <BR>from Afghanistan, it
seems (*)? Who would speak for the wolf?<BR><BR>And also who would understand
that when one is stuck in the warrior <BR>position one needs to go back to the
teacher position, and investigate the <BR>world from a new point of view until
one can go on again. If not, one will <BR>be a soldier, not a warrior - much
less one that cares for the four ways,<BR>(and the center of the circle - the
turtle position...)<BR><BR>Then I become quite sad and disturbed when I have
discovered that <BR>the wolf's voice was understood not as the voice of the
*other*, the<BR>dispossessed of voice, but as "the wolf within us", a much
lesser <BR>dignifying wolf, indeed.<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks for this, Artur. While I mentioned
specifically what you called "the wolf within us", I want very much to also hear
the voices of <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>the ones who's <BR>land one
wants to occupy or to bomb (the ones that were once the<BR>native Americans,
later from Vietnam, later from Serbia, and today are <BR>from Afghanistan, it
seems (*)? </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I didn't know how to ask for these voices and
assumed they were not on our list so didn't ask explicitly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So, if these other voices are among us, or
available in some way, would they speak? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Peggy</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>P.S. It does feel like time to move this
incredibly vital conversation from this list to caucus. So, thank you all
and see you <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>on </FONT><A
href="http://conference.tmn.com/~tmn/caucus.html" eudora="autourl"><FONT
face="Times New Roman"
size=3>http://conference.tmn.com/~tmn/caucus.</FONT></A><A
href="http://conference.tmn.com/~tmn/caucus.html" eudora="autourl"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>html</FONT></A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>