[OSList] Canada Conundrum - what do you think - reply to nazi comment

Sat Feb 19 11:20:05 PST 2022

Thank-you, Chris, for your passion, your eloquence, and your facts. 

John W

Sent from John's iPhone

> On Feb 19, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Chris Corrigan via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Mark:
> 
> I have mostly been ignoring your posts around this but I have to speak out now. 
> 
> The leaders of the protest in Ottawa who have now been arrested include people who are open, brazen white supremacists, anti-Semites, anti-indigenous. Their views are all over the Internet. There are multiple far right and racist groups and leaders in this protest. There are flying their own flags and wearing their colours. They are not hiding. They are not just misunderstood people. They are openly promoting fascism, racism, white supremacy, xenophobia and anti-Senitism. There is an unbelievable amount of hate being spouted all over the place by these protestors.  Most of those who have followed them down this rabbit hole have failed to, or just refused to, dissociate themselves from these people or their views. There are very few people out there saying that these people don’t represent them. Most who disagree with these views have long ago left the protest site. 
> 
> Their objectives when they arrived in Ottawa were to sign an MOU with the Governor-General and the unelected Senate of the country to overthrow Parliament. They were funded by donations that came mostly from outside the country, mostly by Americans. 
> 
> These facts are not in dispute. 
> 
> Now I strongly believe in the right to protest. I understand people who are frustrated by public health restrictions but the idea that a group of people who broke hundreds of laws, who occupied the capital untouched for THREE WEEKS and set up bouncy castles and hit tubs are somehow “living in a tyranny” is an insult to the vast numbers of humans who struggle against oppression, genocide, and repression all over the world INCLUDING those who are arrested and brutalized defending their own Indigenous territories here in Canada today. 
> 
> Open space is about passion bounded by responsibility. It acknowledges that you have the ability to create conversation and to take responsibility for what you care about. 
> 
> And so I canno longer let these messages on this list pass by without taking the responsibility to point out that defense of these protestors and especially the characterization of the racists and white supremacists in the group as a few bad apples is deeply offensive to the hundreds of people of colour, Jews, Muslims, LGBTQ and indigenous people on this list. I beg of you that you reflect on who you are taking to in this forum and pause for some self-reflection. 
> 
> There is simply no place in the world to “yes but” when it comes to these ideas. If you passionately feel that you should be allowed to hate, or support and defend the right to promote hate, then that is you certainly have a right. But I have a responsibility to point out the company you are keeping and to denounce you. 
> 
> Mark, I firmly believe that you have not understood the essence of Open Space and your misunderstanding or willful ignorance of this situation leading conflation of what we are doing in the world as facilitators with the hate being spouted in Ottawa is deeply offensive. 
> 
> I’m pointing this out to you and asking you to stop dragging Open Space into this. I find your opinions inaccurate, untrustworthy, and intolerant. There are many ways we can discuss freedom without defending fascists. But if you insist on defending fascists I will speak up against you and defend the dignity and rights of humans to live free from hate. I am anti-fascist and anti-racist and I won’t let these ideas stand unchallenged. 
> 
> Chris. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 10:05 AM Glenn Waters via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>> Enough of the nazi crap, please. I can't answer if you've misunderstood something but let me share some facts about what is going on.
>> 
>> In general this is a peaceful group of people. There are however a number of people attending that are not peaceful. They harass, assault (physically and verbally), and torment people who live in this area.
>> 
>> A large portion of the downtown is closed because it has been taken over. This is having real affect on those businesses that are already hanging on by their fingernails to stay in business.
>> 
>> For the residents living in this area the only two nearby grocery stores have closed because they fear for the safety of their staff. Many other stores and restaurants are closed for safety reasons.
>> 
>> Nazi flags have been flown, as have other symbols that are commonly associated with hate and supremacy.
>> 
>> Well documented leaders of white supremacists groups are attending. This does appear to be the minority, but I don't have data. Some have been arrested in the last few days.
>> 
>> Shifting to opinion.
>> 
>> I don't think of what is happening a few kilometres from my home as a protest anymore. It is an occupation that is taking away from the freedoms of those who choose to live and work in Ottawa.
>> 
>> The occupiers assets are not being seized. They are being frozen. As this is an occupation I am perfectly fine that.
>> 
>> The occupiers are incoherent. When asked about their demands it ranges from "Freedom." to "We want to take over the government." There is little substantiation behind any of the remarks. Most engagements with the occupiers does not result in any understanding of what they actually want. My understanding is that the original premise of the protests was around don't force us to be vaccinated, wear masks, or have to have/show a vaccine passport. 
>> 
>> I say go ahead and protest. That is your right and I believe in and support those rights. Occupation is not on. 
>> 
>>> On Fri, Feb 18, 2022, at 11:56, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
>>> I have tried my best to bite my lip Regarding the dude's comment that all of the truckers must be white supremest nazi types ... What a ridiculous belief... that's being fed by the fake news that paints every Person protesting for Freedom as a white supremest. Yeah, Total BS....  We are open space technology facilitators we believe in freedom ... right? Or have I misunderstood something?  And what did Canada decide to do? They decided to go and seize the bank accounts and the crypto wallets of the protesters.. Now what sounds more like  nazi tactics, protesting for freedom or seizing people's bank accounts without a trial?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSList mailing list
>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
> 
> 
> -- 
> ---
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Blog and resources: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
> Harvest Moon Consultants: https://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com
> 
> Located on Nex̱wlélex̱wm (Bowen Island), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh territory,
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ---
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Blog and resources: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
> Harvest Moon Consultants: https://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com
> 
> Located on Nex̱wlélex̱wm (Bowen Island), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh territory,
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20220219/998e9b73/attachment.html>