[OSList] Canada Conundrum - what do you think - reply to nazi comment

Sat Feb 19 10:38:38 PST 2022

Thank you Chris for sharing your perspective from a Canadian in the US who
is not as close to what is actually going on there.

David

On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 1:27 PM Chris Corrigan via OSList <
oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

>
> Mark:
>
> I have mostly been ignoring your posts around this but I have to speak out
> now.
>
> The leaders of the protest in Ottawa who have now been arrested include
> people who are open, brazen white supremacists, anti-Semites,
> anti-indigenous. Their views are all over the Internet. There are multiple
> far right and racist groups and leaders in this protest. There are flying
> their own flags and wearing their colours. They are not hiding. They are
> not just misunderstood people. They are openly promoting fascism, racism,
> white supremacy, xenophobia and anti-Senitism. There is an unbelievable
> amount of hate being spouted all over the place by these protestors.  Most
> of those who have followed them down this rabbit hole have failed to, or
> just refused to, dissociate themselves from these people or their views.
> There are very few people out there saying that these people don’t
> represent them. Most who disagree with these views have long ago left the
> protest site.
>
> Their objectives when they arrived in Ottawa were to sign an MOU with the
> Governor-General and the unelected Senate of the country to overthrow
> Parliament. They were funded by donations that came mostly from outside the
> country, mostly by Americans.
>
> These facts are not in dispute.
>
> Now I strongly believe in the right to protest. I understand people who
> are frustrated by public health restrictions but the idea that a group of
> people who broke hundreds of laws, who occupied the capital untouched for
> THREE WEEKS and set up bouncy castles and hit tubs are somehow “living in a
> tyranny” is an insult to the vast numbers of humans who struggle against
> oppression, genocide, and repression all over the world INCLUDING those who
> are arrested and brutalized defending their own Indigenous territories here
> in Canada today.
>
> Open space is about passion bounded by responsibility. It acknowledges
> that you have the ability to create conversation and to take responsibility
> for what you care about.
>
> And so I canno longer let these messages on this list pass by without
> taking the responsibility to point out that defense of these protestors and
> especially the characterization of the racists and white supremacists in
> the group as a few bad apples is deeply offensive to the hundreds of people
> of colour, Jews, Muslims, LGBTQ and indigenous people on this list. I beg
> of you that you reflect on who you are taking to in this forum and pause
> for some self-reflection.
>
> There is simply no place in the world to “yes but” when it comes to these
> ideas. If you passionately feel that you should be allowed to hate, or
> support and defend the right to promote hate, then that is you certainly
> have a right. But I have a responsibility to point out the company you are
> keeping and to denounce you.
>
> Mark, I firmly believe that you have not understood the essence of Open
> Space and your misunderstanding or willful ignorance of this situation
> leading conflation of what we are doing in the world as facilitators with
> the hate being spouted in Ottawa is deeply offensive.
>
> I’m pointing this out to you and asking you to stop dragging Open Space
> into this. I find your opinions inaccurate, untrustworthy, and intolerant.
> There are many ways we can discuss freedom without defending fascists. But
> if you insist on defending fascists I will speak up against you and defend
> the dignity and rights of humans to live free from hate. I am anti-fascist
> and anti-racist and I won’t let these ideas stand unchallenged.
>
> Chris.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 18, 2022 at 10:05 AM Glenn Waters via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
>> Enough of the nazi crap, please. I can't answer if you've misunderstood
>> something but let me share some facts about what is going on.
>>
>> In general this is a peaceful group of people. There are however a number
>> of people attending that are not peaceful. They harass, assault (physically
>> and verbally), and torment people who live in this area.
>>
>> A large portion of the downtown is closed because it has been taken over.
>> This is having real affect on those businesses that are already hanging on
>> by their fingernails to stay in business.
>>
>> For the residents living in this area the only two nearby grocery stores
>> have closed because they fear for the safety of their staff. Many other
>> stores and restaurants are closed for safety reasons.
>>
>> Nazi flags have been flown, as have other symbols that are commonly
>> associated with hate and supremacy.
>>
>> Well documented leaders of white supremacists groups are attending. This
>> does appear to be the minority, but I don't have data. Some have been
>> arrested in the last few days.
>>
>> Shifting to opinion.
>>
>> I don't think of what is happening a few kilometres from my home as a
>> protest anymore. It is an occupation that is taking away from the freedoms
>> of those who choose to live and work in Ottawa.
>>
>> The occupiers assets are not being seized. They are being frozen. As this
>> is an occupation I am perfectly fine that.
>>
>> The occupiers are incoherent. When asked about their demands it ranges
>> from "Freedom." to "We want to take over the government." There is little
>> substantiation behind any of the remarks. Most engagements with the
>> occupiers does not result in any understanding of what they actually want.
>> My understanding is that the original premise of the protests was around
>> don't force us to be vaccinated, wear masks, or have to have/show a vaccine
>> passport.
>>
>> I say go ahead and protest. That is your right and I believe in and
>> support those rights. Occupation is not on.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 18, 2022, at 11:56, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
>>
>> I have tried my best to bite my lip Regarding the dude's comment that all
>> of the truckers must be white supremest nazi types ... What a ridiculous
>> belief... that's being fed by the fake news that paints every Person
>> protesting for Freedom as a white supremest. Yeah, Total BS....  We are
>> open space technology facilitators we believe in freedom ... right? Or have
>> I misunderstood something?  And what did Canada decide to do? They decided
>> to go and seize the bank accounts and the crypto wallets of the
>> protesters.. Now what sounds more like  nazi tactics, protesting for
>> freedom or seizing people's bank accounts without a trial?
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>
>
>
> --
> ---
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Blog and resources: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
> Harvest Moon Consultants: https://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com
>
> Located on Nex̱wlélex̱wm (Bowen Island), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh territory,
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> CHRIS CORRIGAN
> Blog and resources: http://www.chriscorrigan.com
> Harvest Moon Consultants: https://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com
>
> Located on Nex̱wlélex̱wm (Bowen Island), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh territory,
>
>
>
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