[OSList] Where angels fear to tread

Wed Nov 17 12:46:40 PST 2021

Thanks Birgitt.

Yes, surely a wise response to a perceived lack of diversity of topics in
OST would be to increase the diversity of perspectives in the room.

It was made clear to me that "whoever comes are the right people" needed to
be explained as referring to the movements of the people who are already
within the room. That helps folks understand that we will value an increase
in diversity of perspectives for the next time. Assuming that is true!

With a Warm Data Lab, the diversity if contexts posted is limited by the
imagination of the sponsor and facilitator (and the number of breakout
spaces.) So it seems.

Warmly
Jeff

On Wed, Nov 17, 2021, 12:32 PM Birgitt Williams <
birgitt at dalarinternational.com> wrote:

> Jeff...thanks for sharing the article and for the discussion that emanated
> from the question you posed to the OS list. I have enjoyed the responses
> and look forward to more conversation showing up. You have added more great
> questions.
>
> You asked:Do we assume that the passion and responsibility of a gathered
> group will create the requisite variety of topics/contexts to generate
> excellent Warm Data from a theme question, and foster these unseen
> transcontextual sources of systems changing creativity?
>
> Or does the sponsor need to think up and post the outlying topics/contexts
> to invite that fruitful variety?
>
> What are the upsides and downsides of having a passionate advocate post
> and host each topic of conversation? What topics don't get posted, and does
> that limit the potential and health of the system?
>
> My perspective: following the principles of OST, spirit shows up in the
> moment, inspiring people to post exactly the topics that need to be posted
> at that moment in time. This dynamic is altered when relying on anyone to
> pre-post topics, or to set meta-topics, catering to limitation rather than
> abundance of possibilities.
>
> Peggy...I am intrigued by your sentences "Sometimes more and different
> words can help. More often, it takes an embodied experience." I would like
> to understand more. My current understanding is that it is not the words
> used that are most likely to help, rather the embodied experience. Is this
> what you mean?
>
> in genuine contact,
> Birgitt
>
>
> [image: Picture]
>
>
> *Birgitt Williams*
> *Senior consultant-author-mentor to leaders and consultants  *
> *Specialist in organizational and systemic transformation, leadership
> development, and the power of nourishing  a culture of leadership.*
> www.dalarinternational.com
>
>
> >> Learn More & Register
> <http://www.dalarinternational.com/upcoming-workshops/> for any of our
> upcoming workshops here.
>
>
> PO Box 19373, Raleigh, NC, USA 27613
> Phone: 01-919-522-7750
> Like us on Facebook
> <https://dalarinternational.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=35ed818c946a88ba7344da05f&id=6677c35b38&e=e7zyhHfiqG>
>
> Connect on LinkedIn
> <https://dalarinternational.us1.list-manage.com/track/click?u=35ed818c946a88ba7344da05f&id=c26173f86b&e=e7zyhHfiqG>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2021 at 7:31 AM Jeff Aitken via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
>> Now I am considering whether there is a (hopefully) funny joke lurking
>> here somewhere.
>>
>> The facilitator asked the sponsor, "do you want a book of proceedings
>> created from your event?" And the sponsor said "no, I'm going for the
>> aphanipoesis, but thanks."
>>
>> But seriously folks, do we assume that the passion and responsibility of
>> a gathered group will create the requisite variety of topics/contexts to
>> generate excellent Warm Data from a theme question, and foster these unseen
>> transcontextual sources of systems changing creativity?
>>
>> Or does the sponsor need to think up and post the outlying
>> topics/contexts to invite that fruitful variety?
>>
>> What are the upsides and downsides of having a passionate advocate post
>> and host each topic of conversation? What topics don't get posted, and does
>> that limit the potential and health of the system?
>>
>> What can the OST methodology teach the WDL methodology, and vice versa?
>>
>> Early morning questions,
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 5:45 PM Peggy Holman via OSList <
>> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>
>>> From what I can glean in Bateson’s article and what I have heard about
>>> Warm Data, what happens does sound parallel to what occurs when people meet
>>> in Open Space.
>>>
>>> I find her writing frustrating. But when one is attempting to give
>>> language to new ideas, it’s rough. The effort falls into a pattern she
>>> discusses: our tendency to want to relate to the ideas through habitual
>>> lenses. Sometimes more and different words can help. More often, it takes
>>> an embodied experience. Perhaps a Warm Data Lab?
>>>
>>> I find her insight that we need a word for life coalescing towards
>>> vitality in unseen ways intriguing. By naming it, I hope it will become
>>> more seen. Sounds like something we want to notice and grow.
>>>
>>> Thanks for sending the article Jeff.
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> Peggy Holman
>>> Co-founder
>>> Journalism That Matters
>>> Bellevue, WA  98006
>>> 206-948-0432
>>> www.journalismthatmatters.org
>>> www.peggyholman.com
>>> Twitter: @peggyholman
>>> JTM Twitter: @JTMStream
>>>
>>> Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into
>>> Opportunity <http://www.engagingemergence.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 16, 2021, at 2:48 PM, Chris Corrigan via OSList <
>>> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing this Jeff. I have known about Nora's work for
>>> sometime and although I don't fully understand it yet I think what I do
>>> know of it, it's great.).
>>>
>>> WHy does she choose the words she chooses? I think because this is how
>>> she has come to an understanding about the simple truths that Warm Data
>>> works with. God know we have some pretty funny language amongst us all to
>>> explain things like "let people look after things they care about."  But,
>>> Jeff, the first piece you posted of hers makes a lot of sense to me and is
>>> a concise description of Warm Data process, and is very helpful to me
>>> having an "aha" about it.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 1:37 PM Jeff Aitken via OSList <
>>> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also I note that Nora is still very early in the practice of a
>>>> methodology that she invented (I think.)
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's like the first five-ten years of OST as folks were figuring
>>>> out what the hell this is all about... : )
>>>>
>>>> And from the lens of an artist and family therapy researcher whose
>>>> father was Gregory Bateson. That makes sense to me...
>>>>
>>>> Warmly
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 1:21 PM Jeff Aitken <r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Birgitt. My first guess is that it serves practitioners to be
>>>>> simple, while it serves systems scientists to be complicated or complex.
>>>>>
>>>>> They are writing about living systems at all scales and making very
>>>>> subtle distinctions.
>>>>>
>>>>> It may serve us practitioners to have some appreciation for the
>>>>> latter. "Your mileage may vary" tho, as a friend says!
>>>>>
>>>>> Warmly
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 1:10 PM Birgitt Williams <
>>>>> birgittwilliams at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff..I don't understand why it serves to be so complicated? Why not
>>>>>> simply refer to seen and unseen?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Birgitt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 16, 2021, 3:57 PM Jeff Aitken via OSList <
>>>>>> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One more email - I was amiss to mention this new theory by Nora,
>>>>>>> without defining the word she is introducing, and she finds occurring in
>>>>>>> Warm Data Lab and I think is true in OST too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is "a way to describe a life giving process, by which vitality,
>>>>>>> healing, and creativity come into being by the coalescence of multiple
>>>>>>> unseen factors."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Aphanipoiesis combines two words from ancient Greek to describe
>>>>>>> this way in which life coalesces toward vitality in unseen ways. (Aphanis
>>>>>>> comes from a Greek root meaning obscured, unseen, unnoticed; poiesis is
>>>>>>> from one meaning to bring forth, to make.)"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes it's an academic term, and is presented at a systems science
>>>>>>> conference and in a journal article.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Useful for practitioners to think about and to notice in our work?
>>>>>>> That's my question for the oslist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It reminds me of Harrison's definition of "peace" in The Practice of
>>>>>>> Peace. With an emphasis on the unseen, internal, very subtle shifts that
>>>>>>> take place that are NOT reflected in proceedings and action plans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Warmly, Jeff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Reference:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bateson, N.,(2021). Aphanipoiesis. In Journal of the International
>>>>>>> Society for the Systems Sciences, Proceedings of the 64th Annual Meeting of
>>>>>>> the ISSS, Virtual (Vol. 1, №1) — under review.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This work was presented at the Annual Biosemiotics Conference June
>>>>>>> 2021, the Annual Conference of the International Society of Systems
>>>>>>> Sciences July 2021, and the Annual conference of the Institute of General
>>>>>>> Semantics September 2021.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 11:16 PM Jeff Aitken <r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a refresher or quick intro to the process, Warm Data Lab starts
>>>>>>>> with a group of folks and a theme question. But the topics of conversation
>>>>>>>> are chosen in advance by sponsor and facilitator. Each breakout table (or
>>>>>>>> area) gets a topic written on a sign: which names a context from which to
>>>>>>>> address the theme question.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So if the theme is drug abuse, the chosen wide variety of contexts
>>>>>>>> might be: education, prisons, public health, initiation, addiction,
>>>>>>>> pharmaceuticals, parenting, ceremony, etc. People go to the breakouts of
>>>>>>>> their choice and stay or move as they wish. The law of mobility is used. A
>>>>>>>> closing circle might end the event after some number of hours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It has some qualities of OST and World Cafe while being different.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've only been in one WDL so other folks might improve my
>>>>>>>> description.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 15, 2021, 7:22 PM Jeff Aitken <r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Where does systemic change take place? I am reflecting on earlier
>>>>>>>>> posts about the Warm Data Lab and comparing - contrasting this work with
>>>>>>>>> other hosted conversation processes like OST.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What seems different - please correct this if it's wrong - is the
>>>>>>>>> level of attention paid to the complex ways in which WDL might help bring
>>>>>>>>> about change. Looking well beyond action plans and carefully harvested
>>>>>>>>> proceedings etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This may be a fruitful area of inquiry for OST folks. (The subject
>>>>>>>>> line here is from a reference in a book by Nora Bateson's late father
>>>>>>>>> Gregory.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nora Bateson just shared a video and long essay, coming out prior
>>>>>>>>> to her essay being published soon in a journal. She is introducing a new
>>>>>>>>> term "aphanipoiesis" to the conversation of systemic transformation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The essay is here:
>>>>>>>>> https://norabateson.medium.com/aphanipoiesis-96d8aed927bc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some teaser paragraphs for us. Can this also be said about OST,
>>>>>>>>> but we just don't??
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Rewilding the Interior
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In the words of the Warm Data hosting theory, we tend the “about”
>>>>>>>>> so that what is re-configured is in the “within.” It does not really matter
>>>>>>>>> what people talk “about” in a Warm Data Lab. There is nothing to capture at
>>>>>>>>> that level. What matters is the way the participants are internally sewing
>>>>>>>>> together the different conversations and contexts. On a transcript this
>>>>>>>>> information is inaccessible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "In the Warm Data processes, communication in explicit form is not
>>>>>>>>> held to be the communication of interest. That level of conversation is
>>>>>>>>> there as a skeleton, onto which the stories not told reshape the person who
>>>>>>>>> did not tell them, the alterations in tone, the re-tilted perception is
>>>>>>>>> given free rein to rub memories and stories against each other. One comment
>>>>>>>>> that comes up repeatedly is, “Your story changed my story.” Through this
>>>>>>>>> “side-by-side-ing,” stories told change stories almost told, and their
>>>>>>>>> bearers are able to reshape their impressions in ways that are untamed. By
>>>>>>>>> careful tending of the “about” and “within,” the rich world of memory and
>>>>>>>>> story re-wilds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The gaps are where the hope of systemic transformation is
>>>>>>>>> waiting. In the Warm Data processes, participants are given a structure to
>>>>>>>>> re-stitch, to re-wild, to begin a new abductive process into these gaps.
>>>>>>>>> Again, by placing the contexts of life side-by-side in new configurations,
>>>>>>>>> the aphanipoietic processes are given room, without conscious purpose or
>>>>>>>>> goals or defined outcomes, without scripts or roles or trends — to allow
>>>>>>>>> the tender new beginnings of another abductive description to form mutually.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Through this work, I have found I needed this term to embark on a
>>>>>>>>> deeper study of the importance of aphanipoiesis. The changes I witness
>>>>>>>>> occurring in the Warm Data processes are completely unpredictable and
>>>>>>>>> profound. They suggest ever more vividly that there is a real, if unseen,
>>>>>>>>> mingling of the body, culture, education, family — and a whole batch of
>>>>>>>>> transcontextual experience that is guiding all other actions. It is to this
>>>>>>>>> change that I have devoted my efforts toward systemic transformation."
>>>>>>>>> Warmly,
>>>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>>>> Yelamu / San Francisco
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> OSList mailing list
>>>>>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>>>>>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>>>>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>>>>>> Past archives can be viewed here:
>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OSList mailing list
>>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>>> Past archives can be viewed here:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---
>>> CHRIS CORRIGAN
>>> Facilitation - Training - Process Design - Strategy
>>> Complexity - Art of Hosting
>>> http://www.chriscorrigan.com
>>>
>>> Grateful to live on Nex̱wlélex̱wm (Bowen Island), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh
>>> territory,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSList mailing list
>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>> Past archives can be viewed here:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OSList mailing list
>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>> Past archives can be viewed here:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> Past archives can be viewed here:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20211117/efbf31be/attachment.html>