[OSList] What's going on with the OST entry on Wikipedia lately?
Michael M Pannwitz
mmpannwitz at gmail.com
Thu Feb 20 02:00:45 PST 2020
Dear Rob,
OST relies on the force of selforganisation. Which, as we know, is for
free and universally available. As is chaos and order... etc.
And whatever idea we have re the force, it knows nothing of new ideas,
new relationships, world views, realities, new enterprises, national
debts, responsibility... etc. And it does not care, it is simply active
in an entirely unexplainable way without morals, etc. and still, in the
end, is at the base of everything that has happened, including the Big
Bang and a new door for airplanes but also the atomic bomb, etc.
When it gets a chance to act vigorously (in a climate of less control)
we notice, from our own point of view as part of our social constructs,
that there are some extremely unusual sideeffects... everybody leading,
managing, visioning, taking action, being creative, innovative,
thrilled, etc. Its not the doing of the force of selforganisation and,
again, it says nothing of the quality of leading, managing, visioning,
taking action.
And, all organisations are more or less selforganizing. Any
organisation, group, family, gang, nation, neighborhood withoutout at
least a miniscule activity of the force is immediately dead.
How will that enter into an entry in wikipedia?
In some way it has to. There needs to be some description of how OST
relates to the force of selforganisation... without that basic
understanding, regardless of how it is put, OST is stripped of its
unique character (in German "unique character" is also called
"Alleinstellungsmerkmal".
Dont worry, this is a pretty short word compared to many other german
words... it would translate into English something like this "Only this
has xyz characteristic that sets it apart from everything else")
OST specifically has selforganisation as such in its DNA. No other
approach explicitly claims it (even though we know that in many
approaches regardles of how controlling, the force is there and tries to
get some space and time to do its thing)... and, as HO reports, this is
so awesome that people that vastly profited from OST, hate the
facilitator... several billion consultants would be out of business if
the news travelled and it became clear that a system can achieve
something in 2 days that an army of consultants battled for two years
without moving one inch or cm).
I love Koos for taking on this wikipedia task! In a framework different
from a regular encyclopedia where selforganisation does its thing more
freely.
Greetings from Berlin
mmp
Am 20.02.2020 um 07:55 schrieb R Chaffe via OSList:
> Thanks HO.
> Go for it. These three words are also part of the future, follow your
> dream or passion. OS relies on commitment regardless of who it is. Let
> us ensure there is room for new ideas to emerge and new relationships
> develop for with out change we stay the same and of course we get the
> same result.
>
> We need world views that are concurrent with reality, new enterprises,
> and most of all the reality of community. Community is the heart if
> note the soul of a self organising system. Systems need balance not
> winners and losers. Part of the new reality is responsibility. The
> nation debt mounting by the mili second for the USA is intolerable in a
> global sense let alone a nation sense. This public squalor has
> completely lost track of the responsibility we have as one citizen to to
> the other.
>
> Koos do you level best. Just do it. Let us see it blossom into a
> newness that reaches out to those who are open to change as our current
> reality.
>
> Regards
> Rob
>
>> On 20 Feb 2020, at 5:36 pm, Harrison Owen via OSList
>> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Go for it Koos! For myself, I am out of the game. When Wikipedia first
>> happened I was invited to do something on OST. Which I did. From then
>> on we/I got well intentioned notes to “use impartial 3^rd party
>> sources. Two problems: The only source I had is me (hardly impartial)
>> AND nobody in the Academic community has seen fit to write a serious
>> peer reviewed article about OST. Weird, but understandable – a whole
>> mess of tenured positions could be at stake! Just imagine what would
>> happen to the Organization Design Depts. If Open Space actually
>> worked, and worse yet… was actually chronicled and certified as
>> “working” – whatever that might mean. Academic heads would definitely
>> roll! And with good reason. One of the last times I worked with a
>> large (American) corporation on a “sticky issue” the assembled group
>> did in two days what they had previously failed to do in two years.
>> The chief of that operation called me on the Monday to tell me that
>> “He hated me.” He had two reasons: 1) He now had to return to all the
>> boring corporate meetings – knowing full well that an alternative does
>> exist. 2) He also had to admit that two years of intense (expensive)
>> effort had produced failure – which had been rectified in two days –
>> with virtually no effort on his part. Great addition to the CV! And
>> I’m supposed to write-up this kind of stuff? Crazy I am … but
>> masochistic NO-Way. Good luck. And no this was not AT&T. Bigger and
>> richer!
>>
>> ho
>>
>> *From:*OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Koos de Heer via OSList
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:19 AM
>> *To:* 'World wide Open Space Technology email list'
>> *Cc:* Koos de Heer
>> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] What's going on with the OST entry on
>> Wikipedia lately?
>>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> Why wait until WOSonOS? Editing Wikipedia pages is not difficult. I am
>> a Wikipedia editor myself, it is not hard to learn. Wikipedia is like
>> Open Space. Anyone with a good mind and a good heart can do it.
>>
>> I am willing to have a go at correcting the mistakes. Anyone of you
>> who will be reading my improvements and who wants to suggest further
>> edits, is welcome to email me and I will process it as soon as I have
>> time.
>>
>> This week is quite busy for me already, it may have to wait until the
>> weekend before I get around to making the first edits. If you are OK
>> with this plan, I will do it within a week and I will let you know
>> when I have worked on it.
>>
>> Wishing you all a great day
>>
>> Koos de Heer
>>
>> *Van:*OSList <oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org> *Namens *Thomas
>> Herrmann via OSList
>> *Verzonden:* woensdag 19 februari 2020 14:01
>> *Aan:* 'World wide Open Space Technology email list'
>> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> *CC:* Thomas Herrmann <thomas at openspaceconsulting.com>
>> *Onderwerp:* Re: [OSList] What's going on with the OST entry on
>> Wikipedia lately?
>>
>> Sounds like a great idea to me Bhavesh, as long as she/he understands
>> the context, then whoever comes and what & where ever it happens…
>>
>> Looking forward to meeting many of you!
>>
>> Thomas Herrmann
>>
>> Open Space Consulting AB
>>
>> Pensévägen 4, 434 46 Kungsbacka, Sweden
>>
>> Telefon: +46 (0)709 98 97 81
>>
>> Email: thomas at openspaceconsulting.com
>> <mailto:thomas at openspaceconsulting.com>
>>
>> Homepage: www.openspaceconsulting.com
>> <http://www.openspaceconsulting.com/>
>>
>> Profile on LinkedIn:
>> www.linkedin.com/in/thomasherrmannopenspaceconsult
>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasherrmannopenspaceconsult>
>>
>> Company page on Facebook: www.facebook.com/OpenSpaceConsulting
>> <http://www.facebook.com/OpenSpaceConsulting>
>>
>> Open Space Consulting frigör livskraft i människor, organisationer och
>> samhälle.
>>
>> We release lifepower in people, organizations and society.
>>
>> **
>>
>> /Medskapande är hör för att stanna – dags att vässa er förmåga?/
>>
>> /Co-creation is here to stay – time to sharpen your skills?/
>>
>> *Trainings/workshops 2020*
>>
>> March 12 Online erfa-utbyte om Open Space-metoden (gratis!)
>>
>> March 25 5toFold Decision making (online). Genuine Contact Speciality
>> workshops
>>
>> April 2-3 Cross Cultural Conflict Resolution – Netherlands
>>
>> June 7-11 Från vanespår till integration – den glömda kreativiteten.
>> Öland, Sweden
>> (From old habits to integration – the hidden creativity)
>>
>> Sept 1-3 Working with Open Space Technology - Netherlands
>>
>> Sept 4-5 Genuine Contact Mentoring circle, Amsterdam Netherlands
>>
>> Oct 25-27 Working with Whole Person Process Facilitation – Berlin, Germany
>>
>> *Trainings/workshops 2021*
>>
>> Febr 2-5 Genuine Contact Organization – Netherlands
>>
>> Apr 12-16 Genuine Contact Train the Trainer - Netherlands
>>
>> More info & registration: www.openspaceconsulting.com
>> <http://www.openspaceconsulting.com/> (Aktiviteter)
>>
>> Or get in touch via email thomas at openspaceconsulting.com
>> <mailto:thomas at openspaceconsulting.com>
>>
>> <image001.png>
>>
>> *Från:*OSList <oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>> <mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>> *För *Bhavesh Patel
>> via OSList
>> *Skickat:* den 19 februari 2020 10:52
>> *Till:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>
>> *Kopia:* Bhavesh Patel <bhavmail at gmail.com
>> <mailto:bhavmail at gmail.com>>; Michael M Pannwitz <mmpannwitz at gmail.com
>> <mailto:mmpannwitz at gmail.com>>
>> *Ämne:* Re: [OSList] What's going on with the OST entry on Wikipedia
>> lately?
>>
>> And here is a random idea.
>>
>> Berlin has the second biggest Wikipedia organisation in the world,
>> over 100 people.
>>
>> One of the things that Wikipedians love to do is to run live 'learn
>> how to edit the Wikipedia' sessions.
>>
>> I am quite connected with the Berlin organisation, and Jo T has met
>> them as well.
>>
>> I could ask if:
>>
>> * Someone from the Berlin Wikipedia community wants to offer an
>> editing session at the WOSonOS.
>> * Whoever shows up for that session will both learn how to edit the
>> Wikipedia and practice editing by working on the Open Space
>> Technology page.
>>
>> *What do you think/feel?*
>>
>> On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 11:38, Michael M Pannwitz via OSList
>> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
>> <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Steve,
>>
>> first impression I had on reading the wikipedia entry was: Sabotage.
>>
>> I checked the German version. Even though I am not happy with it
>> (being
>> a radical purist) its more or less ok. In the meantime, the actual
>> practice is far more developed as well as the understanding what
>> OST is
>> really about (expand time and space for the force of
>> selforganisation to
>> unfold) is not reflected upon.
>>
>> It seems to me the next WOSonOS in October in Berlin is an
>> opportunity
>> for all interested in this to post the wikipedia entry as an issue.
>> Maybe even in different languages (I never would suggest
>> translating the
>> english version into another language), such as German, Swedish,
>> Chinese, Hebrew, Dutch, Italian (I am suggesting these knowing that
>> folks from countries where these languages are common will be at the
>> WOSonOS).
>>
>> In general, I love wikipedia and the way that stuff is characterized
>> ("This article contains content that is written like an
>> advertisement.
>> Please help improve it by removing promotional content and
>> inappropriate
>> external links, and by adding encyclopedic content written from a
>> neutral point of view. (July 2018) (Learn how and when to remove this
>> template message") gives you hints on the quality of the entry.
>> There seems to be no way of avoiding folks messing with an entry that
>> are from a different planet.
>>
>> Greetings from Berlin
>> mmp
>>
>>
>> Am 19.02.2020 um 00:27 schrieb Steve Holyer via OSList:
>> > Hi Ya'll,
>> >
>> > Yesterday, I checked Wikipedia for a quick encyclopedic description of
>> > Open Space Technology.
>> >
>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology
>> >
>> > It seems that several edits were made in the last 6 months ago or so. Up
>> > until mid 2019 I thought the wikipedia entry was good (if lacking in
>> > some nuance out of necessity). After changes, the current entry
>> > describes a very unusual Open Space. The Open Space it describes is not
>> > an Open Space that I want to be a part of.
>> >
>> > I recognise Wikipedia is not going to be perfect, but I feel like the
>> > current entry is actually misleading, and I think it's harmful. I'd
>> > like to do something about that.
>> >
>> > I'm raising this to the OSLIST because I see that Harrison, Chris
>> > Corrigan and others were actively making edits on the Wikipedia entry
>> > and discussing it on this list between 2008 and 2015 at least. I don'
>> > see anyone from this community working on this now (although I could
>> > have missed some signs). However, I know there is history and
>> > experience here dealing with the Wikipedia ecosystem.
>> >
>> > If it's a good use of time and energy, I can help make edits to the
>> > page, but my question is how would we approach this as member of the
>> > community on OSLIST? What experience and history can members here bring
>> > to bear.
>> >
>> > (Btw this IS my first posting to OLIST, but I've been lurking around,
>> > and meeting different parts of
>> > this community online and face to face.)
>> >
>> > That's the gist of my question. A few details/examples follow my signature.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Steve
>> >
>> > A few of the more outrageous details/examples (IMO)
>> >
>> > There is text that appears to describe the sponsor introducing paid
>> > speakers in the opening. (I don't think a circle is mentioned).
>> >
>> > In fact, the article keeps referring to the "speakers" and the "speaking
>> > schedule", which gives me the impression that Open Space is a talking
>> > head conference that's simply easier to organise because you don't have
>> > to make speaker schedules in advance.
>> >
>> > This statement from the article seems antithetical to Open Space
>> > Technology to me: "At the end of the best open space meetings, a
>> > debriefing document is compiled summarizing what worked and what did not
>> > work, so the process can go more smoothly next time ... Constant
>> > improvement of meeting design is vital for attendees to feel taken care
>> > of and to creating the perception of value from the meeting proceedings."
>> >
>> > The article claims to be paraphrasing Micheal Hermann's post here at
>> > OSWorld
>> > https://web.archive.org/web/20150518200725/http://openspaceworld.org/wp2/what-is/
>> <https://web.archive.org/web/20150518200725/http:/openspaceworld.org/wp2/what-is/>
>>
>> > by stating: "Several meaningful outcomes can and should be specifically
>> > built into the process (safety, trust, courtesy)". I don't Michael says
>> > anything of the sort. Don't think he would. But if he does say it, he
>> > doesn't say it in the post referenced by the citation.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OSList mailing list
>> > To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>> <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> > Past archives can be viewed here:
>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>> --
>> Michael M Pannwitz
>> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
>> ++49 - 30-772 8000
>> mmpannwitz at gmail.com <mailto:mmpannwitz at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 489 resident
>> Open
>> Space Workers in 76 countries working in a total of 142 countries
>> worldwide
>> www.openspaceworldmap.org <http://www.openspaceworldmap.org>
>>
>> At my publisher you find books and task cards on open space and other
>> treasures, most in German, some in English, some as ebooks, some
>> multilingual
>> https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Kommunikation
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>> <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>> OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>> <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> Past archives can be viewed here:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> Past archives can be viewed here:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
--
Michael M Pannwitz
Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
++49 - 30-772 8000
mmpannwitz at gmail.com
Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 489 resident Open
Space Workers in 76 countries working in a total of 142 countries worldwide
www.openspaceworldmap.org
At my publisher you find books and task cards on open space and other
treasures, most in German, some in English, some as ebooks, some
multilingual
https://www.westkreuz-verlag.de/de/Kommunikation
More information about the OSList
mailing list