[OSList] Creating Space or Opening Space?

Fri Sep 4 07:18:32 PDT 2015

*Michael*, thanks for adding "*expanding* space" to the conversation.

*Andrea*, thanks for adding "*making* space with TRIZ
<http://www.liberatingstructures.com/6-making-space-with-triz/>" to the
conversation.

*Harold*, I find the same happens for me, as you say: "I've always found my
world expanded after attending an Open Space" and I agree with your
thinking that opening/expanding/making space is a win-win a the system
level.

*Harrison*, yes I don't know who gave them permission to go ahead and
create cyberspace.  And now they're working on holograms.  I can just see
it now: an open-space-by-hologram using tech like this:
https://youtu.be/Qyxyy10YoNM?t=33s  Although each of us would be trapped in
one of the huge triangular glass cages seen in that video, at least we'd
all be trapped together and we wouldn't have to wait on line at airport
security to get there.

Lucas Cioffi
Charlottesville, VA
Mobile: 917-528-1831

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 8:25 AM, Harold Shinsato via OSList <
oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> Hi Andrea,
>
> So great to see you here, Andrea! I notice that you posted last year that
> you were part of the "Lurker" list, but I think you just disqualified
> yourself as a lurker!
>
> Thanks for the reference to Liberating Structures. I asked about books,
> and I've already put that on the list of recommended books at the Open
> Space Institute - U.S. website. <http://osius.org/books>
> http://osius.org/books . Mostly because Liberating Structures includes
> Open Space Technology, and it talks about doing it in a short amount of
> time. But some of the opening conversation is pretty interesting too, about
> increasing our vocabulary of meeting options.
>
> I'd not focused much on Triz - "Stop Counterproductive Activities and
> Behaviors to Make Space for Innovation":
> <http://www.liberatingstructures.com/6-making-space-with-triz/>
> http://www.liberatingstructures.com/6-making-space-with-triz/. Have you
> used it? Did it really "clear space for innovation"?
>
> I'm curious as well to hear more about how things go with understanding
> each others time perceptions?
>
> And opening an intergenerational space sounds interesting too.
>
>     Warm Regards,
>     Harold
>
> P.S. I'm in mountain time - so it was only 10:16pm when I posted. Not that
> late, at least not for me. Talking about time perception!
>
>
> On 9/3/15 3:43 AM, andrea.chiou at ascconsultinginc.com wrote:
>
> Rich thoughts Harold! You write so well late at night! And always!
>
> This discussion reminds me of the Triz facilitation technique - documented
> well at Liberating Structures!
>
> Also, I have a friend who helps small groups of folks she facilitates to
> understand each other's perceptions of time by asking them some questions:
> Where is now? Where is 5 minutes from now? An hour? A week? A month ? A
> year? Where is yesterday? (Continuities with similar questions about past?)
> as she asks each question, to each individual one at a time, the respondent
> points to a location. Everybody has different perceptual positions . One
> can notice cultural patterns - and also patterns based on ones profession
> (a project planner's year from
> Now might be right in front of them, but a teacher starting the school
> year who'll have it off in the distance.) some have the past in front of
> them and the future behind them (hasn't happened yet).  It's quite a
> fascinating texhnique!
>
> Sad I missed Tuesday's call - glad that I was instead opening an
> intergenerational space with a very long time elderly family friend... :-)
>
>
> Choices!
>
> Best,
> Andrea
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:16 AM, Harold Shinsato via OSList <
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Lucas, thanks for adding some of your thinking here. I was intrigued by
> something you said at the Qiqochat supported online Open Space experience
> we had on the OSHotline this past Tuesday. It seemed to relate to what
> started happening soon afterwards on the OSList.
>
> About "creating" or "opening" space - I do believe these are useful and
> powerful metaphors. But in terms of some of the cosmology thinking - I'm
> remembering what my college professor at my first Physics class said.
>
> We don't really know what time is beyond *time is what we measure with
> clocks*.
> We don't know what distance (space) is beyond it is what we measure with
> rulers.
>
> I opened that class's text book, and couldn't find it, but I found the
> time definition with a quick internet search. It is attributed to Einstein,
> and other text books do consider it an operational definition of time. It
> seems fit well with Harrison's notions that we don't really understand time
> or space.
>
> Even given our not really knowing - we still measure it. Play with it.
> Live in it. And one huge transformation from Prigogene which has been
> discussed on the OSList before - was an insight from the life sciences that
> essentially overthrew the principles of Entropy that caused the character
> played by Woody Allen in Annie Hall to get really depressed as a boy that
> the ultimate end of the universe was complete dissolution.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U1-OmAICpU
>
> "Why are you depressed, Alvy?"
> "The universe is expanding... Well, the universe is everything, and if
> it's expanding, someday it will break apart, and that will be the end of
> everything."
>
> The problem with the principles of Thermodynamics that Entropy (i.e.
> disorder) always increases, is that these principles came from the study of
> closed systems. If the Universe is truly a closed system, our old physics
> required a rather dismal cosmology.
>
> Maybe trying to nail down the ultimate truth about the Universe into a
> formula or equation is a bad idea anyway, but the Universe *AS I SEE IT*
> will certainly decay and dissolve to death. And I'll have to grieve that
> understanding. Because my understanding most certainly is FINITE at any
> point in space/time. But all I have to do is let go, and I can open up some
> space in my understanding. And maybe at that point - I'll break open into a
> new understanding. One that is bigger and greater than the previous one.
> New Space! at least for me. And if it creates space for me, perhaps I can
> invite someone else into this new space as well. Or maybe we can walk into
> it together, after properly grieving our past understanding - may it rest
> in peace.
>
> To me - how this relates to your insight if you create space for X - you
> are creating space against Y: perhaps there's something valuable to that.
> Because often there really is a clearing away necessary in order to "open"
> space. When I go to an OST event, I most certainly am choosing to clear my
> calendar to accept that invitation. Yet - if anything - I've always found
> my world expanded after attending an Open Space. Always! And perhaps that
> is simply because my Understanding grew - and therefore - voila - more
> space at least in my own head.
>
> And about your final sentence in bold, although there's some truth in your
> win/lose perspective - perhaps if you viewed things from a different
> perspective - the perspective that could take in the whole system - you
> would see that the pie grows enough for everyone to ultimately win - if
> they accept the invitation into this bigger pie. And that bigger pie is the
> growth of our collective understanding and comprehension of this infinite
> mystery.
>
>     Cheers,
>     Harold
>
>
> On 9/2/15 7:47 AM, Lucas Cioffi via OSList wrote:
>
> That's an interesting thread you started, Daniel, about inviting
> non-invitation.
>
> Harrison writes yesterday:
>
>> Here’s a thought... Space/time is infinite, defined by our minds, and
>> limited by our imagination. So “constraints” are only what you make them
>> out to be. AND... it is always nice to have as much “space/time” as
>> possible. A “genuine invitation” creates a LOT of space/time.
>>
>
> *Do y'all think we are creating space or are we opening space?  It's an
> important distinction, because creating implies a win-win but opening could
> be a win-lose situation.  *I'd say none of us is ever creating space,
> just opening it, and that someone or something is always losing something
> else when we do.
>
> *I'll do my best to explain...*
> Instead of "creating space" I'd argue that instead we are "creating space
> *for*" because the space literally already exists.  We are creating
> opportunity for voices to be heard and for people to participate.  But in
> some indirect way a *space for X* is at least indirectly a *space against
> Y*.  We are never actually creating new space, instead we are creating "*new
> space for*" by marking that space with an invitation/purpose, principles,
> and a law of two feet.  The space (the hotel conference room, the
> warehouse, etc) already exists.
>
> I don't disagree, Harrison, that overall space/time might be infinite–I
> don't know :) –but each of us is limited to being in one physical space at
> a time, monitoring/interacting with a handful of physical spaces virtually,
> and having 24 hours in a day.  In that way we'd all agree that space and
> time are nearly zero sum at a personal scale, so when we open/create space
> for _________, and people accept the invitation, we are decreasing energy
> and time spent some where else.  There is a cost.  We don't talk about
> that, but I don't think we forget that either.
>
> So, to take this argument full circle (pun intended), I'd say that
> whenever we open space, we do it by force.  Space doesn't open on its own
> (or does it?!-- what if we aren't really *opening* space and the space is
> already open, that we're just the first to see it?).  Well, even if space
> opens on its own and then if we're the first ones to walk into it and
> invite others, we are still inviting by force–this not a bad force or a
> coercive force, but it's a force nonetheless.  We know this, because we
> know how it requires force to launch an invitation into the world.  (Or is
> this not always the case?  Can someone invite by simply being?)
>
> Any invitation displaces people's time: to read it (maybe just 30 seconds)
> and then much more time is displaced for people choose to attend (an hour,
> a day, etc).  What I'm trying to say is that I'm beginning to see opening
> space more and more as active, forceful (in a good way), and intentional.
> When we open space that was previously closed, we are using force, and that
> might mean that someone else is experiencing something else closing (the
> old order of business in an organization or fewer people attending another
> event or doing something that they would have otherwise been doing if they
> weren't attending).
>
> Bottom line: It's hard to argue with creating space because it looks like
> a win-win, but somewhere someone or something is losing our time, energy,
> and support in the short term.  In the case of an organization the person
> losing is the boss who wants to keep the old order of things.  When that
> situation isn't applicable, we're at least spending time away from other
> things we could be doing such as tending to a vegetable garden or taking
> Fido for a walk.  *So it's always important to keep in mind who/what is
> losing when we open space, and perhaps using the phrase "creating space" is
> a good way to focus on the upside.*
>
>
> --
> Harold Shinsato
> harold at shinsato.com
> http://shinsato.com
> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>
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>
> --
> Harold Shinsato
> harold at shinsato.com
> http://shinsato.com
> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>
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