[OSList] The Cave

Tue Jan 7 07:26:21 PST 2014

I long for the good old days out in The Cave. I hark back to the time of Dreaming, and often struggle in this time of Doing. I grieve because today I am surrounded by folks who judge me when I 'go there' because they lost touch with their's somewhere along this line of evolution. I battle with myself throughout the year because I STILL only get myself a ticket to there when I have lost 'The Plot' to the point of only being ABLE to do what needs to be done - collect wood, make food, protect the children. 

The Cave is hearing the silence.
The Cave is knowing how to survive.
The Cave is acknowledging your priorities.

The Cave is as important to my life as the view from the top of the mountain, without both I am lost on this journey between one and other.

Thank you for inspiring some timely reflections... 
Amerie

On 7 Jan 2014, at 14:43, paul levy wrote:

> You couldn't be more wrong, Harrison.
> 
> The consciousness of the "Cave" still plays into our days and ways right here in the now. And aspects of it have evolved beautifully as well. Some aspects have fallen away. And some aspects of what lie "before" (behind)  in time are still before (in front) of us, yet to be realised. I know many people who hark back to the cave, and many, to the circle around the fire, the place where all could see each other, and even share stories, warmth and decisions. Oh yes, it has a different name now... Open Space Technology.
> 
> warm wishes
> 
> Paul Levy
> 
> 
> On 7 January 2014 13:56, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
> Marie – Doubtless there have been multiple ups and downs along our pathway of evolving consciousness. But optimist that I am, I persist in the odd notion that some very interesting things have happened. But not always according to our plan.J So on particularly bad days (you get to name your favorites) I find it useful to reflect on the fact that given all the terrible things that have happened, could have happened, might have happened – isn’t it wonderful that we are still here to complain about how bad things have gotten? And last time I checked I haven’t heard of too many folks who are longing for the good old days out in The Cave.
> 
>  
> 
> Harrison
> 
>  
> 
> Harrison Owen
> 
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> 
> Potomac, MD 20854
> 
> USA
> 
>  
> 
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
> 
> Camden, Maine 04843
> 
>  
> 
> Phone 301-365-2093
> 
> (summer)  207-763-3261
> 
>  
> 
> www.openspaceworld.com
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> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> 
>  
> 
> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Marie Ann Östlund
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 6:51 PM
> 
> 
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Subject: Re: [OSList] self-organization
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you for that. I'm not well versed in these theories but I know that Habermas have used Piaget's theory of human evolution to describe evolution of human society. What I find attractive with his view is his emphasis on communication as the motor of evolution - human conciousness evolves through interaction with others and become less egoistic or self-centred. However, this evolution is not inevitable. That's why Habermas is so concerned with the communicative side of society. It is through our interaction with others that our self-centredness is challenged and hopefully modified.
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> 
> Others have challenged the view that it's possible to compare the evolution of consciousness - from childhood to youth - with the evolution of society. Still others don't agree with Piaget's theory (within his field) but I don't know their objections. 
> 
>  
> 
> But if we use the idea that evolution of consciousness means becoming less self-centred and more conscious of others - are we sure that human society is evolving? And if we are, is it from a historical low-point (20th century wasn't particularly wonderful, considering the WWs, Cold War etc.) or has it progressed steadily from time immemorial? From what historical point do we take our measure? From where, which continent, and what are we measuring? 
> 
>  
> 
> I'm conscious that I'm questioning some commonly held assumptions, and you might find it ridiculous of me to do so. But that's what fools are for :)
> 
>  
> 
> Marie Ann 
> 
>  
> 
> Skickat från min iPhone
> 
> 
> 6 jan 2014 kl. 22:38 skrev Paul Nunesdea <nunesdea at me.com>:
> 
> Hi Marie Ann, 
> 
>  
> 
> I apologise if interrupting an otherwise interesting conversation here with but when you ask 
> 
> interested to know what you base your idea that human consciousness has "clearly evolved". :)
> 
>  
> 
> Piaget and others have written about how human consciousness evolves from birth to adult life.
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>  
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> Most of this knowledge derives from cheer observation of small child's behaviour.
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>  
> 
> If you extrapolate this findings to our own evolution as a species wouldn't it be natural that this same self-developing path applies to this other dimension of 'being human'?
> 
>  
> 
> Happy new year!!
> 
>  
> 
> From my iPad
> 
> 
> On 06/01/2014, at 18:02, Marie Ann Östlund <marieann.ostlund at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> I do agree that Open Space is a form of organising - a beautiful and eloquent one, as you say. If we bring 200 people in a room without any set up, principles, law, facilitator etc, it most probably be quite a different meeting than an Open Space meeting. So yes, a form of organising.
> 
> Interesting view on self-organising. I hear what you're saying, and I think many esoterically inclined on the list would agree. I'm esoterically inclined, but don't quite agree. But that's not the point. This discussion helps me understand how some of you define and view self-organisation, and why you talk about it in the way you do.
> 
> I'd be interested to know what you base your idea that human consciousness has "clearly evolved". :)
> 
> Marie Ann
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 9:30 AM, paul levy <paul at cats3000.net> wrote:
> 
> HI Marie
> 
>  
> 
> I'm suggesting quite the opposite. Truth doesn't always elude us because we are both tiny and universal.
> 
>  
> 
> Open Space is a form of organisation. It is a minimally structured process that enables BOTH selves and the SELF to organise.
> 
>  
> 
> Self-organisation is the act of the self, organising. The self is microcosmic, realised in the emergent, incarnated individual self, and macrocosmic in the holism (whole-ism) of the universe. Diversity lies in between, different levels and qualities of consciousness.
> 
>  
> 
> As consciousness in our human selves has clearly been evolving, we've gone through various stages. Egoism has tended to both harden the self and lead to overstructure as those selves attempt to enclose and gain control over nature. Minimal structuring and organisation is an antidote to overstructure. Open Space Technology is such a minimal structure. And, oh yes, a structure it is. A beautiful, eloquent one.
> 
>  
> 
> Paul
> 
>  
> 
> On 2 January 2014 23:37, Marie Ann Östlund <marieann.ostlund at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thank you Paul. I'm not sure how to respond or if I need to. :)
> 
> Truth with always elude us since we're tiny. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand. And as you say: "Perhaps it's us self-organising so the self might know it" That's what I'm suggesting. Our experiences might help us towards some more coherence.
> 
>  
> 
> Marie Ann
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:09 PM, paul levy <paul at cats3000.net> wrote:
> 
> Of course, all of these wonderful statements about what self-organisation is, are organising statements !
> 
>  
> 
> Open Space Technology itself, minimal as it is, is an organising process.
> 
>  
> 
> I do enjoy lazy philosophy. It's part of our mysterious humanity. And making statements about self-organisation is like trying to bite your own teeth. You can't grasp this particular spiritual feather because you are the feather, the wind, the blowing and even the story of it.
> 
>  
> 
> Though, perhaps the "self" in self-organisation really does refer to the human self.
> 
>  
> 
> The eye is formed by the light, for the light. Perhaps it's us self-organising so the self might know it.
> 
>  
> 
> Happy New Year
> 
>  
> 
> Paul Levy
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, 30 December 2013, Daniel Mezick wrote:
> 
> Such a rich topic! Thanks to Marie Ann Östlund for opening this topic.
> 
> I am compelled to add the following words (verbatim) from RIGHTS OF MAN, by Thomas Paine. The book is quite an interesting read for folks like us. It tends to confirm and join with all of Harrison's key points. 
> 
> My favorite quote in the book: 
> "...society performs for itself almost everything that is ascribed to government."
> 
> When he says [society] in the text, he means groups to people who are self-organizing, according to natural propensity.
> 
> The whole book is here, for free:
> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2H_4_0007
> 
> Quoting below, from this specific section:
> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2HCH0001
> 
> Will you pardon my forwardness? I've taken the liberty of bolding a few words for emphasis:
> 
> "So far is it from being true, as has been pretended, that the abolition of any formal government is the dissolution of society, that it acts by a contrary impulse, and brings the latter the closer together. All that part of its organisation which it had committed to its government, devolves again upon itself, and acts through its medium. When men, as well from natural instinct as from reciprocal benefits, have habituated themselves to social and civilised life, there is always enough of its principles in practice to carry them through any changes they may find necessary or convenient to make in their government. In short, man is so naturally a creature of society that it is almost impossible to put him out of it.
> 
> "Formal government makes but a small part of civilised life; and when even the best that human wisdom can devise is established, it is a thing more in name and idea than in fact. It is to the great and fundamental principles of society and civilisation—to the common usage universally consented to, and mutually and reciprocally maintained—to the unceasing circulation of interest, which, passing through its million channels, invigorates the whole mass of civilised man—it is to these things, infinitely more than to anything which even the best instituted government can perform, that the safety and prosperity of the individual and of the whole depends.
> 
> "The more perfect civilisation is, the less occasion has it for government, because the more does it regulate its own affairs, and govern itself; but so contrary is the practice of old governments to the reason of the case, that the expenses of them increase in the proportion they ought to diminish. It is but few general laws that civilised life requires, and those of such common usefulness, that whether they are enforced by the forms of government or not, the effect will be nearly the same. If we consider what the principles are that first condense men into society, and what are the motives that regulate their mutual intercourse afterwards, we shall find, by the time we arrive at what is called government, that nearly the whole of the business is performed by the natural operation of the parts upon each other.
> 
> "Man, with respect to all those matters, is more a creature of consistency than he is aware, or than governments would wish him to believe. All the great laws of society are laws of nature. Those of trade and commerce, whether with respect to the intercourse of individuals or of nations, are laws of mutual and reciprocal interest. They are followed and obeyed, because it is the interest of the parties so to do, and not on account of any formal laws their governments may impose or interpose.
> 
> 
> ***
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/30/13 11:10 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:
> 
> Marie – I think you have it just right. But maybe you are making things a little too complicated, and working a bit too hard. In my simple mind, things look like this. First: All systems are self organizing, even those we think we organize. Second: Organizing a self organizing system is not only an oxymoron, but stupid – especially when the system can do a better job all by itself. Third: Whenever we try to organize a self-organizing system, we inevitably get it wrong. Our efforts are “clunky.” Even though it may look great on paper, our efforts are never subtle or flexible (agile) enough. Fourth: Open Space is simply an invitation to self organize. In other words it is simply an invitation to be and do what we are. The fact that it works as it does has nothing to do with our knowing any philosophy, principles, practices... It works as it has for 13.7 billion years, long before we arrived on the scene, all without our help and assistance. Fifth: the real value of OST is as a training program enabling us to experience consciously and intentionally what all too often passes by unnoticed – Life. It is also a marvelous laboratory in which we can learn more about our natural state. And oh yes – all the principles, philosophies, practices, etc are fun, interesting, and useful to the extent that they help us to understand with greater clarity what is really going on. But at the end of the day they really don’t change a thing. I think.
> 
>  
> 
> ho
> 
>  
> 
> Harrison Owen
> 
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> 
> Potomac, MD 20854
> 
> USA
> 
>  
> 
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
> 
> Camden, Maine 04843
> 
>  
> 
> Phone 301-365-2093
> 
> (summer)  207-763-3261
> 
>  
> 
> www.openspaceworld.com
> 
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
> 
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST Go to:
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Amerie Rose
Encounter Theatre Company
07989 330 684
Current projects: www.forum2012.org.uk  and Primary Colour Play and Expression

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